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Crime capitol of the world...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Originally posted by BumbleBee
Why don't you worry about the mess your own nation is in?
One of the main problems of having a country where anyone is free to carry a weapon is that a lot of people take to using them. We frequently hear of students on the rampage in america, the Police shooting to kill etc etc.
Like I said, worry about your own country, don't concern yourself with our 'problems' because you sure as hell have enough of your own.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=314832
The UN Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute reveals that people in England and Wales experience more crime per head than people in the 17 other developed countries analysed in the survey.
The findings are expected to cause further embarrassment to the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, who has pledged to have street crime under control by September.
This week, the Home Office will publish its White Paper outlining radical reform of the criminal justice system, in part to curb spiralling street crime and to punish more offenders. Government sources confirmed to the IoS that the reforms will also include empowering judges to tell rape-trial jurors about a defendant's previous convictions.
In the UN study, researchers found that nearly 55 crimes are committed per 100 people in England and Wales compared with an average of 35 per 100 in other industrialised countries.
The UN study analysed Home Office crime statistics for England and Wales and also carried out telephone interviews with victims of crime in the 17 countries surveyed, including the US, Japan, France and Spain.
Ummm... errr... How does ya's explain away THISIE HEAH article? :rolleyes:
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Comments
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=314309
Why am I not surprised?
I guess what is more surprising is the lack of commentary on the part of the gun-grabber crew...
Have you actually read the article?
Whilst reported increases in mugging and robbery is up 28%, the means of reporting stats has changed, and in fact there is only a 2% rise. Also worth noting that 44% of all muggings/robebries happen in London. In actuality there has been a drop in most other parts of the country.
Note: Violent crime is down by 5%, and there has been an overall reduction in crime since 1997 of 22%.
I guess none of us commented because it isn't really much of a story, when you look at the whole picture and not just the headlines.
Over here, that is referred to as "Spin Control"...
Or, in mathmatical terms, demonstrating that 2+2=347
Btw... me thinks it's time to reconsider toasting that pint...
Look at your two quotes.
One states that 5.5m crimes are reported, so a maximum of 1 in 10 people could be affected - in a population of 55m.
The second, states that more than half of the population is affected, or exposed to crime.
Just a minor difference there, wouldn't you say?
BTW what did the UN survey say about other countries - France, Germany, US etc?
What the stats reported didn't much matter when comparisons favorable to the UK were made to the US, did they?
Statistics can be twisted any damned way that it is desired to use them, or even manufactured to "prove" a point.
Operative issue is that the generally accepted perception is that it is relatively "safe" in UK, and the US is an "enormously violent and dangerous" place.
Perceptions might not always be accurate...
{btw... I would still share the beer with you; just make mine a domestic Foster's Lager (as in genuine Australian), and CHILLED, thank you!}
those 55 crimes could be anything, speeding offences, vandalism, petty drugs use.
There are thousands of laws on the British statute books, and from my own studies at uni, levels of violent crime and other serious offences are nowhere near as high nationwide. Ever heard of regional variation?
If you goto a proper website, namely the office for national statistics, which has ALL the information you could ever need http://213.219.10.30/n_story.asp?item_id=145 then you would find that the Independant is being WAY too melodramatic when it comes to crime, as it always is.
Note how the media always casually miss out the figures saying that overall crime for the country as a whole is falling.
I am obviously not an expert on all of this, but I think you've got a bit too much time on your hands Thantos trying to make out the US is some form of utopia, by pointing out the faults of other nations. Get over it.
Just to show off, prison populations for the 2 countries. Britain numbers at approximately 68,000. The USA has approximately 1,680,000, which is larger than all but the 4 largest US cities.
In both countries the highest inmate populations can be attributed to petty crime, drugs/robbery and other petty offences. We all think the current sentencing practices in the UK are a joke, however the average sentence for a drugs offender in the USA is 5 years. The average sentence for a violent offender is 3 years.
Britain has approximately 1 prisoner for every 890 people of it's 59,987,000 population. The USA has approximately 1 prisoner for every 170 people of it's 284,796,887 population.
Just so you know
Thanks Whowhere!
I'm going to save those stats!
Reading what is posted within this forum, it would appear that the UK believes that it is society's fault that the criminal commit crimes, therefore punish society, rather than put the miscreant away... Reward the little wanker for his "misdeeds", rather than sending the reprobate to prison.
Most crime committed = least number of prisoners? That speaks well for your courts/prison system, doesn't it?
"Utopia"? Not in your wildest wetdreams. Too damned many liberal wankers here who would turn this nation into the image of what is on your little island... bring "A Clockwork Orange" out of the movies and into reality...
"How many lil' old women did you pillage today, Johnny? Only three? Must raise your stipend, so you do not have to tax yourself by doing a days work..."
:rolleyes:
I'm still going to dispute the "more crime" part of that comment, but your other point is true and ties in with this:
I'm not sure that is the view of the majority here, but certainly within the justice system there are too many people who fail to see that punishment is a necessity.
I would rather see the scumbags locked up that see them given petty fines and community service orders.
When we finally do get someone sent down, the length of the sentence is so pitiful that the criminal fraternity must be pissing themselves laughing.
I don't think that is what he is suggesting at all. He has never portrayed the US as a utopia and recognises the faults just as much as we do.
What he is arguing, and I support, is that the perception of the US as a violent society is a result of certain areas of the US - such as South Central LA, much as we would argue that the crime stats for this country show that 44% of muggings/robberies actually only occur in London. In Kent these crimes have reduced...therefore my perception is different...
Actually no.
In the USA there is a large disparity between offenders and what their crime is, and why they have been imprisoned.
In Britain petty criminals are often fined, or given community service orders. Jail is seen as the last resort, hence the 68,000 people in our prisons are there for serious offences.
However in the USA your courts tend to send as many people as possible, for whatever misdemeanour to prison. The majority of the 1.6 million people in US prisons are there for drugs offences, with most being there for little more than possesion. Compared to British prisons there are relatively few serious offenders. I say relatively because there are more, but per head of population the level is about the same as the UK, however your criminal justice system obviously leaves little scope for petty offenders, and has adopted a "lock em away for good" attitude.
By your posts, you support drug use (and abuse).
In the US, drug use/abuse is a massive drain upon this country, whether in decreased productivity, increased crime (to support their addictions), cost to the health system to support the little wankers who would rather live within their drug induced delusional state.
Difference in values.
You would rather support/reward the wankers. Pay them for their perversion of life. Put them on the dole so that they do not have to "work" to support their "habit".
The US - if we must support the little wankers - choose to take them out of circulation.
Frightening, isn't it? More and more, we find we agree on "issues".
Now... Iff'n ah maht jist INVITE ch'all out fer a taste o' the pleasure o' rifles an' such, we could have a DAMNED good ole time!
Actually, you couldn't be further from the truth.
I believe that the welfare state is essential, for people who are unable to work.
In my opinion the dossers who take the piss and WONT work should be left to rot. Drug users in this country repay their debt to society with money, not jail time. Far more economically sound approach, especially as it costs about £700 to house one prisoner for a week. Why pay that when you can get the offender to pay you?
Your country is rife with them who CHOOSE not to work, and idle their besotted days away.
"Better put them on the dole, so they can booze/drug it up!"
More "economically sound" would be the Taliban's approach. A bullet to the head is cheaper than EITHER the incarceration OR the dole...
See? I am certainly sufficiently eclectic to incorporate bits of the ideology from other cultures.
And that fine comes from their "stipend"? WHO pays? :rolleyes:
Which is why we have had an increase in the prison population of those people who fail to pay fines...
As Thanatos suggests fines are okay if the person works for their living, It really means jackshit is those fined pay out of their dole/income support cheque.
NB Thanatos, not all criminals are on welfare...
NB II Not sure I'll go for the beer, much prefer a Jack Daniels myself. Anyway, what do you want to drink that Aussie piss for, much better to go for some British Ale? and you know we only serve warm beer over here...
Jack Black be OK, but ah prefers ol' Chivas Royal Salute, mahsef!
Why?
So that they might have "carnal knowledge" of Mother Nature... artifically sustaining them who would not otherwise survive, until the whole organism is bled dry by parasites.
Gotta prove Darwin wrong, remember? 'Tis the liberal way...
Thanatos... you could be so intelligent. But your narrowminded stupidity always lets you down.
Oh, you must be soooo right! :rolleyes:
However, your blatant naivite is simply incredulous should you not comprehend that whatever system is devised can easily be abused... :rolleyes:
I have people coming into my shop weekly applying for jobs which they are not qualified for. Let us see: shall we spend one hour each week in a bogus job "search" to qualify for the dole. Hmmm... Exactly how much is that stipend? Hmmm... Guess it is worth that measily hour.
Get serious, please. Or at least make the attempt to get real... :rolleyes: