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Homeopathic remedies - total waste of time?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Homeopathic remedies often show little side effects because they are generally ineffective all round.

    This.

    The difference between homeopathy and most other "treatments" is one of effect. Homeopathy has no effect at all (in most clinical trials) whereas most other treatment will do something even if it's not what was intended. As AR suggested earlier Viagra is a prime example of this. There are also hundreds, or thousands, or treatment which we need hear about because they have proven to be ineffective or dangerous and therefore are no longer practiced.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in certain sorts of trials it doesnt come out well, as i said earlier, because its not one solution for each problem. its holistic and the same problem in two different people might require a different treatment, so these sort of trials dont work.

    In practice, in common use when the right treatment is found, it can be very effective. Thats all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    But Homeopathic remedies don't do the same thing, that's why they remain medically unproven.

    Obviously, that depends on what types of medication you're talking about. I currently take Kalms Sleep, to, er help me sleep. Unlike sleeping tablets, it's not addictive. (I have never taken sleeping tablets; but that's what my GP told me)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in certain sorts of trials it doesnt come out well, as i said earlier, because its not one solution for each problem. its holistic and the same problem in two different people might require a different treatment, so these sort of trials dont work.

    In practice, in common use when the right treatment is found, it can be very effective. Thats all.

    As I said, I don't disagree that some people will report that it worked, however the evidence to explain why is very very limited and it comes across as a case of "post hoc ergo propter hoc" rather than anything else. The fact that no-one seems to report any side effects suggests that there are actually no active ingredients in the treatment offered.

    There are many conventional treatments which don't work for everyone, however there is scientific (randomised, double-blind studies etc) which suggests that they work for some people. Homeopathy cannot offer that type of evidence, certainly none which stacks up to peer review.

    Hence huge skepticism.

    It probably doesn't help when even the practitioners and users cannot explain the "why" question either. When you have "treatments" which would equate, as Ben Godacre points, out to "a dilution of 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000.", you really have to logically question whether there is actually anything at all in the pill/water you are being given.

    NB, I am willing to be convinced otherwise. It would herald an option for treatment which most people don't recognise. I just cannot find anything to convince me...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Obviously, that depends on what types of medication you're talking about. I currently take Kalms Sleep, to, er help me sleep. Unlike sleeping tablets, it's not addictive. (I have never taken sleeping tablets; but that's what my GP told me)

    Yeah, except Kalms does fuck all when you're talking about really disordered sleeping and not just having a short bout of insomnia. The only thing that's managed to send me off to sleep is Zopiclone, and my sleeping isn't even THAT bad, in relation to others.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,210 Skive's The Limit
    Melian wrote: »
    Obviously, that depends on what types of medication you're talking about. I currently take Kalms Sleep, to, er help me sleep. Unlike sleeping tablets, it's not addictive. (I have never taken sleeping tablets; but that's what my GP told me)

    It doesn't depend on what medication you're talking about. No Homeopathic remedy has been scientifically proven. Homeopathic remedies work on the science that water has a memory, and that it 'remembers' what has previously been held in it. According to the theory the more diluted the remedy the stronger the treatment. Homeopathic drugs work works on the theory of similars. For example if somebody was suffering from insomnia, the correct ingredient for a Homeopathic remedy would be outrageously diluted caffeine. It's crazy science, mumbo jumbo jank.

    And don't be confusing natural remedies with Homeopathic remedies. Kalms are not a Homeopathic remedy. Neither are ear candles.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    actually when i had pregnancy insomnia i used coffea along with lavender as theres fuck all else you can try and it worked to a certain extent.

    Saying that, conventional sleeping pills only work to a certain extent with me too
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,210 Skive's The Limit
    actually when i had pregnancy insomnia i used coffea along with lavender as theres fuck all else you can try and it worked to a certain extent.

    Please go ahead and explain the science behind the theory that diluted caffiene helps you sleep?

    And lavendar, thats aromatherapy. There's certainly no scientific medical trial that has proved lavendar as a sleep aid.
    Whislt getting a whiff of a nice smell may help relax you, and some drugs can definately be absorbed through inhalation, most aromatherepy treatments have no pharmacological effect. Still the science behind it has more going for it than homeopathy.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think of homeopathy the same way I think of praying- works for some people but that's their problem.

    Although, I've never had someone yell at me in the street or treat me differently because of their belief in homeopathy, whereas I have about praying. This is why I really don't care. If someone else wants to take a remedy, fine. It's not like they teach it in schools or anyone tries to fanatically convert you so... who cares.

    And, as for the science of water memory, I have an interesting book on the subject that I might dig out, so even with the 'there's not enough water on the planet' observation, there may be at least some truth in the idea that water can have a memory of things it has been in contact with previously whilst not containing any of that substance.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,210 Skive's The Limit
    Praying doesn't work.

    Even if water did have a memory. treating ailments with ingredients that cause simialr ailments in healthy people is absurd.

    If somebody wants to take a remedy that's fine. But if somebody is going to take a homeopathic malaria remedy to go on holdiay with instead of taking proven malaria drugs then I'm afraid that person is an idiot. The NHS should not be spending money or time on such things.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Praying doesn't work.

    There is an interesting study about three groups of patients. One was not prayed for, one was prayed for, but they didn't know, and one group was informed that there were people praying for them and their chance and pace of recovery was much worse, because they had this bad consciousness that they "owe" someone to get healthy again, increasing stress levels, but that's OT.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    can I use ice as an example of water having a memory of whatever it was frozen in?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    If water has got a memory (which it hasn't, but let's play along for now) why does it only remember the things you want it to remember, and not all the dinosaur turds and soiled nappies and left over kebabs it has come into contact with over the millennia?

    Does immunoglobulin have a memory ?

    And if so, does it remember everything it has come into contact with ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ~
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,210 Skive's The Limit
    Does immunoglobulin have a memory ?

    And if so, does it remember everything it has come into contact with ?

    Water is not a protein, let alone an antibody. No relevance.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So proteins have a memory but water does not ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So proteins have a memory but water does not ?

    State your position.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,210 Skive's The Limit
    So proteins have a memory but water does not ?

    If you have an argument as why water can remember what has previously been diluted in it then spit it out.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    Katralla, I don't get your point about ice, can you explain?

    I'm funny, it's a joke- water remembers the shape of its container once you freeze it.
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