By Laws and getting Arrested

Former Member

I have friends who are involved in a protest at the moment, which is peaceful and does no harm to property... However, the police originally said it was OK and some were supportive, but now they are intimidating them with threats of bringing in riot police (it's a small protest), saying that they are contravening by laws.

I went to one of the earlier protests and it was really friendly and gentle. No vandalism, no drugs, just people sitting down, being friendly, in an inclusive atmosphere.

I'm thinking of going up next weekend to show solidarity and sit in with them. However, I work for a government department and I can't really risk losing my job at the moment.

If I got arrested, would I lose my job?

What's the difference between law and by laws? Why would it have changed suddenly?

The demo is in London, but I know Trafalgar Square is exempt from SOCPA?

Former Member

Well it certainly would not look good if you did get arrested.

If you have not been there all the time, there could be things going on that contravene by laws that you are not aware of and that the police after investigation (or complaints) have discovered these laws.

Former Member

You need to check your contract, but it usually depends on what you are protesting against and the reason for your arrest.

Bring the department into disrepute is grounds for dismissal.

Former Member

Even if you're not arrested, you may also still be in breach of your contract. Friends of mine who work in the CS have been told that protesting against their employer, the Government, is not seen in a fantastic light although permissible and protests against the actual department they work for will be seen as gross misconduct.

Former Member

A by-law is often put in place by a local council and is often limited to a VERY narrow pre-defined area. Good examples are persons over the age of 14 not being allowed on certain playparks or not drinking alcohol in a public place. Some by-laws are made into statutes by popular demand, for example not being able to consume alcohol in a public place often only covered a park or a few streets. Because of local demand Designated public place orders were brought into effect. It's a similar law but can be varied to cover a much wider area (for example entire towns/villages).

The other major difference however between a by-law and a regular law is that by-laws have to be CLEARLY signposted in the area where they are in effect.

As for your second question, it depends on your policies at work. If I get arrested, even without being charged I need to inform my boss and professional standards unit. Other public departments may stipulate that you only tell your employer if you are formally cautioned or charged and found guilty.
It's important that you find out before you go on the protest, if you're in a public department I expect you'll have a union rep, either Unison or GMB. get in touch with them and they'll be able to provide you with a copy of the staff handbook.

Also, I have never heard of a by-law prohibiting assemblies or protests, any by-law that does exist is probably out of date and unlawful due to the Human Right's Act.

Former Member

Assuming that as a civil servant that your conditions be generally the same as ours (though you'll want to check your staff handbook) you will need to notify if you've been arrested and bail refused or if you're convicted of an offence (with some exceptions around motoring). The Dept would then hold a disciplinary and decide what to do.

However, my feeling would be that unless they regard you as complete tool and are trying to get rid of you then, assuming there's no jail time, you won't be fired and indeed probably won't get anything more (it's not up to the Civil Service to add extra punishment to the courts).

The 'political' nature of the offence may make this more complex, but from what I understand of your job it's junior and transactional rather than a senior, politically sensitive post and so my guess is that they won't do anything more.

Not Namaste's post, but Artic Roll's - but it's probably worth saying that I suspect your friends may be being too negative. Passing my TU notice board today I saw a poster for the May Day protests and I know loads of Civil Servants who have been on marches against Iraq, Fox-Hunting Ban etc and without Civil Servants the recent TUC rally would have been much smaller. Generally as long as you don't make public statements (especially those which link you to the CS) or are active in organising the CS couldn't care.

Indeed at the more junior levels (under EO) you are politically free and can engage in local and national political activities without hindrance (with again a few minor exceptions eg those working in a Minister's Office)

There is, as you say, however a general no-no on protesting against areas you are involved in (and a lesser no-no about protesting on your departmental policies - it would depend on your seniority and links with policy in question as well as the size of the department).

Former Member

Flashman's Ghost wrote: »

However, my feeling would be that unless they regard you as complete tool and are trying to get rid of you then, assuming there's no jail time, you won't be fired and indeed probably won't get anything more (it's not up to the Civil Service to add extra punishment to the courts).

The 'political' nature of the offence may make this more complex, but from what I understand of your job it's junior and transactional rather than a senior, politically sensitive post and so my guess is that they won't do anything more.

In normal, better times I might agree with you. But with thousands of redundancies being thrust upon us, a blot on your record like this isn't something you want if you're one of those who needs to be reinterviewed for your job.

Former Member

Buy a 'V for vendetta' mask. And a hat.
Just turn up, and if things turn shady walk away...

Former Member

A mask isn't much help if he actually gets nicked is it.....

Skive

A video camera is must. Record everything the police do.

Former Member

Im thinking 4 Lions, anti surveillance face!

Former Member

G-Raffe wrote: »

Im thinking 4 Lions, anti surveillance face!

:thumb:

Former Member

Hey Namaste,

You mentioned that the protest was taking place this weekend; did it go ahead and did you participate? How did it go?

As WhoWhere has explained by-laws are made by local authorities for a specific location. Your local authority website should have more information.

Whowhere also explains that if you are arrested, your work policies will determine whether you lose your job or not. Ask a union representative or even your manager. Maybe your employment contract or work handbook has more information?

However, keep us posted about the protest or if you have any further questions!