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Why do men shout at women in the street?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you are missing the point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    It doesnt sit quite right in my mind that its ok for a woman to assume the worst, yet if a bloke did, he would get laughed at?

    I'm not quite sure what your point is.

    If a man assumes that a woman will make a false rape allegation he has one easy way of preventing it. He can simply not put his penis inside her vagina. Problem solved.

    If a woman assumes that the man following her shouting sexual abuse at her is a rapist, there isn't a great deal she can do about it. She can't stop him following her and she can't stop him shouting the sexual abuse. She can't stop the man on the crowded tube train from pinching her bottom and stroking her breasts. She has no power or control over her situation, other than saying something, which often makes things worse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    What on earth has this got to do with women being harrassed or sexually assaulted?

    Try reading the comment I replied to, or even better try reading the thread in its entirety.
    The phenomenon you are displaying here is similar in form to Godwin's Law, and needs a name. I propose Spliffie's Law.

    Spliffie's Law says that "as an online discussion about crimes against women grows longer, the probability of a man coming along and bleating about how men have such a terrible time of it too approaches 1".

    Jamelia's Law says that "as online discussion about crimes against women, including having men look at them grows, the probability of a man coming along and suggesting that victimhood isn't solely a female preserve approaches 1, a woman comes along and claims he's bleating about men have such a terrible time of it with equal probability".
    What are men most afraid that women will do? Laugh at them.
    What are women most afraid that men will do? Kill them.

    What are men most afraid that women will do? Laugh at them.
    What are men most afraid that men will do? Kill them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    What are men most afraid that women will do? Laugh at them.
    What are men most afraid that men will do? Kill them.

    The more I read about your view on other men, fighting etc the more I wonder if I live in a parallel universe, or you do?

    I've never really feared other people as much as you seem to...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The more I read about your view on other men, fighting etc the more I wonder if I live in a parallel universe, or you do?

    I don't know, what is is my view on "other men, fighting etc"?
    I've never really feared other people as much as you seem to...

    You've feared a lot more people in your life than I have in mine, I'll guarantee you that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    The way some men act is inexcusable, but saying the worst that can happen if a woman is shouting stuff at you is laugh, is ignoring the point that in most cases a wolfwhistle (going back to the original story) in broad daylight accross the street [whilst totally wrong] doesnt mean someone is going to get raped.

    Do you realise how fucking intimidating and scary it is to have someone do that?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    The more I read about your view on other men, fighting etc the more I wonder if I live in a parallel universe, or you do?

    I suspect you do. I know mates who have suffered life threating injuires and permement disfigurment through violent crime.
    I myself was stabbed 8 times just over three years ago. I don't go out on the town scared but there is a definate realisation and awareness that somebody could pick a fight with you and cause you permemant damage or even kill you.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think we all know people who've been badly hurt in street attacks, but IME most people who get in fights regularly get in fights so bring it on themselves. Certainly when I worked as a criminal lawyer it was the same people in our office every week on charges related to drunken brawls, it was the same people week in week out going out, getting drunk and having fights.

    Certainly some people who get involved in fights are unlucky, just trying to have a quiet drink, but I don't think most people in fights are that unlucky. Generally if you want to avoid fights you will and if you don't you won't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Going back to the original question why do men shout at woman in the street?
    Who's knows is there any men on here that do it?
    Can they explain why?
    Its not nice really, and it does happen to alot of girls.
    I am 34 (so no spring chick) and got jostled by 3 men at just after 9 in the morning yesterday!!!! ( i just held my head high and walked away).
    There is not much u can do or say or change it.
    And it not what u are wearing either because i had on black skinnys loafers and a blazer nothing revealing about that!!
    But on a night out a guy came up 2 me and straight away said don't worry i'm not chatting u up just wanted to say i love the colour of your hair that was it and off he went lol.
    So any men out there that did abuse woman there are ways attacting womans attention without intimidating them. x
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    I think we all know people who've been badly hurt in street attacks, but IME most people who get in fights regularly get in fights so bring it on themselves. Certainly when I worked as a criminal lawyer it was the same people in our office every week on charges related to drunken brawls, it was the same people week in week out going out, getting drunk and having fights.

    Certainly some people who get involved in fights are unlucky, just trying to have a quiet drink, but I don't think most people in fights are that unlucky. Generally if you want to avoid fights you will and if you don't you won't.

    So most male victims of violent crime bring it on themselves?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends on the violent crime, there are many categories.

    Someone who gets mugged or gets attacked by some scrotes for telling them to stop smoking doesn't bring it on themselves. But so many injuries from violent crime are from drunken fights and most people in drunken fights regularly get in drunken fights. And if you regularly get in drunken fights you'll eventually get hurt.

    You'll have acquaintances, just as I do, who always seem to attract brawls and some who never do. Do I think the ones who always end up in fights want to end up in fights? Yes, I do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    I don't know, what is is my view on "other men, fighting etc"?

    Well, in this thread you have suggested that men are most afraid that other men will "Kill them". In another thread you recommended that another User beat someone up because they were punched by the guy...

    That certainly gives a little insight into your views that doesn't fit with the type of world I live in. I'm not suggesting that you are wrong in your assessment, based on your own social circle, but it just doesn't fit with mine.
    You've feared a lot more people in your life than I have in mine, I'll guarantee you that.

    I cannot remember the last time I was fearful of another person. I know I can look after myself because on the occasions I have needed to, I did. This stops me worrying about what someone can do to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    I suspect you do. I know mates who have suffered life threating injuires and permement disfigurment through violent crime.
    I myself was stabbed 8 times just over three years ago. I don't go out on the town scared but there is a definate realisation and awareness that somebody could pick a fight with you and cause you permemant damage or even kill you.

    I'm aware that there is a risk, but I'm also aware that it's a really small risk so it doesn't worry me.

    The closest I've come to anything like that is when a guy pulled a gun on me - maybe I'm lucky it failed but I didn't give him chance to do anything else. That was possibly the last time I was afraid but TBH, that fear only came after the event. It certainly didn't stop me going out or wandering down the same pathway in the dark. It was random and unlikely to ever be repeated.

    As for someone "picking a fight with you" - again that's not something I have experienced. I don't know why but then I'm not aggressive towards other people and I don't go "looking" for fights. Maybe that's part of it.

    Like I say, it's like I live in a parallel universe because I don't recognise the type of culture that you experience.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    I'm aware that there is a risk, but I'm also aware that it's a really small risk so it doesn't worry me.

    Really. Save for sexuial assault, men are more likely to be a victim of violent crime. Jamelia made the point that men are most scared of being laughed at, and women most scared of being murdered. In reality the risk of being murdered is higher for a male.
    As for someone "picking a fight with you" - again that's not something I have experienced. I don't know why but then I'm not aggressive towards other people and I don't go "looking" for fights. Maybe that's part of it.

    Maybe you're don't go drinking and clubbing till late like I do, because when I do I regularly see people being bottled, glassed, sucker punched and kicked by groups of people. To suggest that the majority of these people brought it on themselves or coudl have avoided it is absurd.
    I've seen a mate of mine almost lose an eye after being sucker punched by a jealous boyfriend for doing nothing more than asking a girl if she wanted a drink. I was stabbed by somebody I'd never met and never spoken a word to.
    Like I say, it's like I live in a parallel universe because I don't recognise the type of culture that you experience.

    Doesn't mean it's not there. I don't often get men cat calling but I'm not denying it doesn't exist or it's not a serious problem. What you suggesting is that violent crime is a something ordianry men needn't worry about.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Really. Save for sexuial assault, men are more likely to be a victim of violent crime. Jamelia made the point that men are most scared of being laughed at, and women most scared of being murdered. In reality the risk of being murdered is higher for a male.

    Yeah but it's statisically still very insignificant...
    Maybe you're don't go drinking and clubbing till late like I do, because when I do I regularly see people being bottled, glassed, sucker punched and kicked by groups of people. To suggest that the majority of these people brought it on themselves or coudl have avoided it is absurd.

    Not anymore I don't, but I used to and never had an issue then.

    NB I've never suggested that anyone brought it on themselves.
    What you suggesting is that violent crime is a something ordianry men needn't worry about.

    Based on my own experience, it isn't something to "worry" about. The likelihood of it happening is pretty small even on a national scale. CBA to look it up right now but the number of recorded crimes against men isn't as high as you would think, when compared to the amount of time we are around.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Maybe you're don't go drinking and clubbing till late like I do, because when I do I regularly see people being bottled, glassed, sucker punched and kicked by groups of people. To suggest that the majority of these people brought it on themselves or coudl have avoided it is absurd.

    I would disagree. I think many do bring it on themselves. I've never had issues like that when going out - I don't start fights or get so drunk that I pick fights or whatever.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    Melian wrote: »
    I would disagree. I think many do bring it on themselves. I've never had issues like that when going out - I don't start fights or get so drunk that I pick fights or whatever.

    Your assuming that men who get assaulted must have been in a two way fight which is absurd?

    Drinking makes you more likely to be a victim of crime. It doesn't mean that if you are drunk and become a victim, that you have somehow brought it on yourself ffs.

    When I was stabbed I had been drinking but wasn't drunk. Should I carry some responsibility for my assault?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Drinking makes you more likely to be a victim of crime. It doesn't mean that if you are drunk and become a victim, that you have somehow brought it on yourself ffs.

    When I was stabbed I had been drinking but wasn't drunk. Should I carry some responsibility for my assault?

    Theyre not saying that in every single situation the victim brought it on themselves but i do agree that alot of guys go out just to get into a fight and beat someone up. What about your sig?

    Casual sex, watered down lager, heavilly cut drugs and occasionally kicking fuck outta someone.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    It a quote from The Football Factory. must mean I'm a football hooligan.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I knew where the quote was from, but it does nicely highlight my point about people (both men and women, it should be noted) who go out with the intention of getting drunk and having a fight. The statistics on violent crime include them, not just the poor sods who get some twat glass them for absolutely no reason. My point wasn't that anyone who gets battered "deserves it", my point was that- unlike with rape- many of those people choose to put themselves in fights where they're gonna get hurt.

    A lot of victims didn't do anything at all wrong but the same names keep getting arrested Friday after Friday for the same drunken brawling,
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From what I've seen fights start because some drunken idiot will pick a fight with the first guy that crosses his eye, then if the other guy rises to it then they have a fight. It's up to them if they decide to respond to the threats. Obviously that's not what always happens, but just from my experience anyway. Maybe we should get back on topic now?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    Obviously there are people that go out and are prone to violence. But its not the majority of men.

    From most of your posts I get the feeling that you think that most assaulted men have got themselves into that situation, that's every case of assault is actually a fight. Therefore it's not so bad. Men are frequently assaulted without fighting back.

    Ballerina I 've seen women getting pushed around and slapped by men on the town after they've 'risen' to an argument with their boyfriend . Does that make their assault better. Fucked up logic.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, I think most people who end up in fights end up in fights on a regular basis and they can't exactly say that it's a surprise when they get hurt. I'm not the wildest of party animals, I fully admit, but I go out enough to see what happens. I've never been in a fight despite people trying it on with me, the difference is that I walk away. I'd love to brain them, and genuinely hope some of them have the shit kicked out of them, but it isn't going to be by me. I have too much to lose from getting a violence conviction, so I walk away with my teeth and my safety and a clean criminal record. Some of it's luck but some of it is judgement. I don't subscribe to the view that it's unmanly to walk away, so I walk away.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    Violence us a problem for both men and women on the streets. For women the threat is sexual violence and for men it's assault.
    It is in no way a single gender issue.

    I understand why women may feel that threat more. Where as I can go round offering out other bloke on the street without getting into trouble, cat calling and wolf whistling generally goes unchallenged, which is quite obviously wrong.
    I do resent the assertion that women have more to be worried about though because I think it's equally a problem for both sexes.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Obviously there are people that go out and are prone to violence. But its not the majority of men.

    From most of your posts I get the feeling that you think that most assaulted men have got themselves into that situation, that's every case of assault is actually a fight. Therefore it's not so bad. Men are frequently assaulted without fighting back.

    Ballerina I 've seen women getting pushed around and slapped by men on the town after they've 'risen' to an argument with their boyfriend . Does that make their assault better. Fucked up logic.

    I wasn't talking about women. And I've not personally seen a woman get 'pushed around and slapped' by their boyfriends in public I'm only talking about personal experience. And no it doesn't make it any better and I doubt that had these people in question not been drunk then alot of these fights would still have happened. However, I do think some people are more prone to getting involved in fights when they've been drinking, be it they start it or rise to it as alcohol can make some people very aggressive or more easily aggravated. Anyway, I'm not sure what this has to do with the original topic?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    No, I think most people who end up in fights end up in fights on a regular basis and they can't exactly say that it's a surprise when they get hurt. I'm not the wildest of party animals, I fully admit, but I go out enough to see what happens. I've never been in a fight despite people trying it on with me, the difference is that I walk away. I'd love to brain them, and genuinely hope some of them have the shit kicked out of them, but it isn't going to be by me. I have too much to lose from getting a violence conviction, so I walk away with my teeth and my safety and a clean criminal record. Some of it's luck but some of it is judgement. I don't subscribe to the view that it's unmanly to walk away, so I walk away.

    I think this is really closeminded opinion. remonstrating with somebody does mean you deserve a punch or a glass in the face. I've seen drunk girls remonstrate with with their boyfriends and get a slap for it. following you line of thought some responsibility lies with her for not walking away? If she fights back, defending herself does that mean its a fight not an assault? Again fucked up logic.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    Ballerina wrote: »
    I wasn't talking about women. And I've not personally seen a woman get 'pushed around and slapped' by their boyfriends in public I'm only talking about personal experience. And no it doesn't make it any better and I doubt that had these people in question not been drunk then alot of these fights would still have happened. However, I do think some people are more prone to getting involved in fights when they've been drinking, be it they start it or rise to it as alcohol can make some people very aggressive or more easily aggravated. Anyway, I'm not sure what this has to do with the original topic?

    Its a proven fact that being drunk raises you chances of becoming a victim of violent crime. That includes murder and sexual assault. I'm sure there are a few women who were raped after drinking too much, and that a few of those cases would never have happened had she been sober. Doesn't mean she's in anyway to blame.

    I think this fucked up. It came from a quote that the most men had to be scared of was being laughed at and the most women had to be scared of was being killed. When it pointed out that in fact being murdered by a stranger is a problem for both men and women, you lot rubbish it as drunken men fighting each other.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    The only way you can stop men calling out and cat calling in the short term is to start handing out fines for threatening and abusive behavior.

    Obviously the long term answer is educating men, and installing a bit more respect for women in them.
    You'll never stop them from looking though, if I see a hot woman on the street I'm going to look. There's no such thing as the thought police.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    I think this fucked up. It came from a quote that the most men had to be scared of was being laughed at and the most women had to be scared of was being killed. When it pointed out that in fact being murdered by a stranger is a problem for both men and women, you lot rubbish it as drunken men fighting each other.

    I don't think jamelia's comment was accurate, but what I said was that most people who are attacked- sexually, violently, murderously, whatever- know the person who attacks them. It was somebody else who brought in figures about street violence against men being a bigger problem than against women, which is really only tangentially linked.

    It is, but within that is a context where a significant number of victims do get involved in things that leave them at the risk of being attacked. I don't mean walking down an alleyway- that isn't being culpable for anything- but getting involved in fisticuffs due to a misplaced sense of machismo is ridiculous.

    You've talked about it before on here, saying that it is manly to punch back if someone abuses you, otherwise they "think they can get away with it". Perhaps it is, but if you let some pissed-up scrote get under your skin like that you're going to end up as a street violence statistic, either as a defendant or as a victim.

    You should be able to argue with anyone without being attacked, I agree, but being realistic if a complete stranger's going to start on you it is more sensible to walk away if you don't want to be a street violence statistic. You should be able to have a barney with your boyfriend without any risk of being hit, but you can't really be so certain with someone you don't know.

    It doesn't make it right, but if you go around braining anyone who calls you a cunt you're going to eventually be on the wrong end of a hiding. You should be able to walk around without anyone calling you a cunt but it's better to walk away then get dragged into fights. If someone wants to call me a cunt then let them.

    As for your last post, I think you've got it spot on. There isn't anything wrong with looking, regardless of gender. When the ladies' rowing team start warming up in front of my office window in tight lycra, of course I'm going to enjoy the view. My colleague's the same when the men's rugby team come in with their tops off. But that's the thing: you look with your eyes not your mouth and fingers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There isn't anything wrong with looking, regardless of gender. When the ladies' rowing team start warming up in front of my office window in tight lycra, of course I'm going to enjoy the view. My colleague's the same when the men's rugby team come in with their tops off. But that's the thing: you look with your eyes not your mouth and fingers.

    ... and you don't shout at them...
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