Home Politics & Debate
Come and join our Support Circle, every Tuesday, 8 - 9:30pm! Limited spaces available! Sign up here
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

Why do men shout at women in the street?

24

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    zgoditak wrote: »
    Well. I know what these feminist groups willl do. They will start harrasing all guys. I approach many women in the street by I don't shout. I act serious and mature...is that a crime according to them?

    Depends on how you approach them and what you say, doesn't it.

    "Show us your tits love" is a terrible thing to do. A compliment isn't, providing you bugger off if the woman tells you to bugger off.

    I don't understand why some men do it, personally I think it is a power thing. They know they can intimidate lone women and they enjoy making the woman feel uncomfortable and frightened. They're trying to prove that they're stronger and tougher than the woman and, mostly, they're right. They are.

    In response to CptCoatHanger, when a group of girls has groped me and made comments I've been really uncomfortable because I know they were taking the piss. I didn't feel threatened because of the different power dynamics but it was upsetting. So I can understand why women would feel upset by it and I can understand why a lone woman would be intimidated by a group of men.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    When it's late at night and a man won't leave you alone or is making creepy comments, how do you know he's not a rapist?

    I don't know if this was addressed to me, but even disregarding the daytime, someone who doesn't leave you alone, after you told him (instead of just talking you up) AND making creepy comments instead of just asking a normal questions or saying normal things is the difference. Of course you can never know who's a rapist, but you don't have to treat every man who talks to you in the street as if he is a monster.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    Of course you can never know who's a rapist, but you don't have to treat every man who talks to you in the street as if he is a monster.

    That's sometimes difficult if you've had a bad experience.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    That's sometimes difficult if you've had a bad experience.

    I guess, it's sexist nonetheless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I had to laugh at this bit...
    men have been indoctrinated into it, and it's been a privilege for them to walk down the street fantasising about women. The culture hasn't checked the behaviour."

    It's a privilege for men to walk down the street fantasising about women? And women are denied this "privilege" how, exactly?

    I don't shout or whistle at women in the street, although I have been subject to lewd comments myself by ageing hags on the prowl for young men as I've passed them by but I do leer, some women are unresponsive or ain't keen on it, others love it. As matter of fact, I've ended up having sex with women I've leered at on several occasions.

    Drunkards shouting at lone women late at night is one thing, appreciation of the female form in public is another :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have no doubt this happens to women more than men, and particularly much later on in life, but I've had it happen to me too. Groups of dickhead men (usually boys, to be fair) are not beyond shouting things at anyone who walks past, usually in an effort to intimidate them. I've also had groups of teenage girls do it, albeit less frequently. In every case, it's about showing off to their friends, rather than anything personal. But then so is gang rape, so I can understand why it's particularly worrying for women who experience it. However, it might also sometimes be the grown up (and I use the term loosely) equivalent of throwing a ball of paper at the girl you like in class.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Groups of dickhead men (usually boys, to be fair) are not beyond shouting things at anyone who walks past, usually in an effort to intimidate them. I've also had groups of teenage girls do it, albeit less frequently. In every case, it's about showing off to their friends, rather than anything personal. But then so is gang rape, so I can understand why it's particularly worrying for women who experience it.

    Gang rapes of men aren't uncommon either in areas near where I live. Plus, gang attacks are usually against males, that young men are the most common victims of street violence is something long established.

    I think its specious to make this wholly a gender issue, most guys have enough bravado to walk the streets without feeling real fear which isn't true for a lot of women, even though statistically it's males more at risk of attack.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it depends on the type of attack though. I don't want to belittle a man getting mugged or getting a bit of a hiding, as it is horrible, but it isn't quite the same as being raped.

    Of course talking about rape in this context is a bit silly. The man who's most likely to rape you isn't the pissed up arsehole hollering out of his Saxo, it's the lovely man you met in the pub who charmed you and bought you drinks and now doesn't seem to understand that no actually does mean no.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    of course it's a power thing.

    i felt too scared to wear a skirt for ages because of the amount of honks i got walking down one street. this isn't showing off at all, i believe some men see a lone female at night and get sheer joy out of making her feel uncomfortable, it isn't about physical attraction at all. it made me feel like my skirt was too short/i was dressed provocatively/i looked like a 'slag'. i had a pair of trousers with me so actually got changed into them on the train, pussy that i am. i do genuinely believe there are a lot of straight men out there that hate women.

    slightly unrelated but i was in an empty train carriage in the early hours of the morning going to work a few months ago. this beefy, 40 odd year old workman turned to his friend and loudly started talking about how i should get off the train and go back to whereever i came from because apparently i was 'foreign'. i felt really intimidated but at the same time angry yet powerless to do anything. the best i could think of was to call him a prick as i got off the train and even then i felt like i was taking my chances.

    why someone old enough to be my father feels that he can act verbally aggressive and intimidate a young, tiny girl on a train like me.. i have no idea. it's disgusting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The comparison to gang rape was that it's about male bravado in front of the group, as is the kind of shouting we're talking about. I wasn't comparing them in seriousness, merely psychology.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it depends on the type of attack though. I don't want to belittle a man getting mugged or getting a bit of a hiding, as it is horrible, but it isn't quite the same as being raped.

    What about, say, being stabbed, beaten or axed to death? Hardly uncommon in cities up and down the UK.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Murder and manslaughter rates aren't as high as rape rates, which is why stabbings are headline news and rapes are not. Although, as with rape, you're more likely to know your attacker than not.

    It isn't a competition though. Figures for street attacks on men are inflated because men have this lovely habit of getting drunk and having a punch up and, by and large, women don't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    this isn't showing off at all

    i do genuinely believe there are a lot of straight men out there that hate women.

    I think showing off is definitely a large part of it. Particularly with groups of teenagers or the stereotypical building site scenario.

    But I do think there might also be men out there that do hate women. Which like a hatred of any group, is usually down to feeling inadequate yourself. I don't know if men are more likely to take out their inadequacies on other people. They're more likely to join the BNP if that's any indication. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think showing off is definitely a large part of it. Particularly with groups of teenagers or the stereotypical building site scenario.

    But I do think there might also be men out there that do hate women. Which like a hatred of any group, is usually down to feeling inadequate yourself. I don't know if men are more likely to take out their inadequacies on other people. They're more likely to join the BNP if that's any indication. ;)

    ahh sorry i meant that i wasn't showing off by mentioning the honks because i dont think it comes down to an attempt to flatter or how attractive a woman is looking that night. it's about lording power over a woman daring to wear a skirt and to look the big man in front of mates.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i do genuinely believe there are a lot of straight men out there that hate women.

    I really don't. I've only known a handful of true misogynists in my life. Some guys, usually drunken fools and degenerates, simply don't realise they causing people to be uncomfortable or fearful. It doesn't enter their minds.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    I really don't. I've only known a handful of true misogynists in my life. Some guys, usually drunken fools and degenerates, simply don't realise they causing people to be uncomfortable or fearful. It doesn't enter their minds.

    I think (or hope) it's a minority but I have come across men who I believe do. I dont think they are necessarily aware of it but there have been a couple of indicators, usually being downright rude to women is an obvious one to me. I know that some people on here will argue that it just makes him a bit of a knob and I'd have to agree, but definitely a knob with a few chips on his shoulder regarding women..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    StrubbleS wrote: »
    I don't know if this was addressed to me, but even disregarding the daytime, someone who doesn't leave you alone, after you told him (instead of just talking you up) AND making creepy comments instead of just asking a normal questions or saying normal things is the difference. Of course you can never know who's a rapist, but you don't have to treat every man who talks to you in the street as if he is a monster.

    Nobody is saying treat men like monsters... It's just persistent men, who follow women, or get aggressive or offended because they don't get attention is the problem.

    It's not that I don't think you have a right to an opinion as (I assume by your profile a male), but maybe you are talking about how you treat women, rather than how some of us have been treated.

    And I disagree that it's sexist for women to be wary. Sexism is routed in superiority, wariness is rooted in being streetwise and sometimes afraid. That isn't a woman's fault, it isn't your fault if you're one of the good guys, it's the fault of rapists, people who make light of rape, rape culture and people who blame women for being raped.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think (or hope) it's a minority but I have come across men who I believe do. I dont think they are necessarily aware of it but there have been a couple of indicators, usually being downright rude to women is an obvious one to me. I know that some people on here will argue that it just makes him a bit of a knob and I'd have to agree, but definitely a knob with a few chips on his shoulder regarding women..

    The guys you're talking about will be just as rude, probably even ruder, to other men, it's really no indication of having a chip on their shoulder with women. Most women haters I've come across don't engage with women like that at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    The guys you're talking about will be just as rude, probably even ruder, to other men, it's really no indication of having a chip on their shoulder with women. Most women haters I've come across don't engage with women like that at all.

    well that's my experience of it anyway, the example i have in mind isn't rude to men at all. the impression he gives me is that he hates women. it seems like it isn't all that rare either, you say you've met women haters yourself?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well that's my experience of it anyway, the example i have in mind isn't rude to men at all. the impression he gives me is that he hates women. it seems like it isn't all that rare either, you say you've met women haters yourself?

    Sure, I know 4 guys I consider misgoynist. But that's out of everyone I've known throughout the last decade.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ive met LOADS of mysoginists. Some are women themselves
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    What about, say, being stabbed, beaten or axed to death? Hardly uncommon in cities up and down the UK.

    What on earth has this got to do with women being harrassed or sexually assaulted?

    The phenomenon you are displaying here is similar in form to Godwin's Law, and needs a name. I propose Spliffie's Law.

    Spliffie's Law says that "as an online discussion about crimes against women grows longer, the probability of a man coming along and bleating about how men have such a terrible time of it too approaches 1".

    And with respect to groups of women shouting stuff at men, I agree that's horrible too, for the reasons Arctic Roll pointed out. They're generally taking the piss and being sarcastic, which is awful.

    But here's the big difference. This is what explains the gender imbalance in these kinds of conversations, which is why it makes sense to keep the focus on how this affects women, rather than how it affects men.

    What are men most afraid that women will do? Laugh at them.
    What are women most afraid that men will do? Kill them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »

    What are men most afraid that women will do? Laugh at them.
    What are women most afraid that men will do? Kill them.

    Erm nope, what about the fear that the random a bloke pulls is going to turn around and accuse him of rape in the morning, when nothing of the sort has occured? Which does happen from time to time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Erm nope, what about the fear that the random a bloke pulls is going to turn around and accuse him of rape in the morning, when nothing of the sort has occured? Which does happen from time to time.
    We're talking about people shouting and perving on us in the street, not about picking up people in bars ffs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Erm nope, what about the fear that the random a bloke pulls is going to turn around and accuse him of rape in the morning, when nothing of the sort has occured? Which does happen from time to time.

    Exactly what Franki said. What's the worst thing a woman walking behind you shouting stuff at you will do to you? Laugh at you.

    What's the worst thing a man following me home might do to me? I'd rather not even think about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    G-Raffe wrote: »
    Erm nope, what about the fear that the random a bloke pulls is going to turn around and accuse him of rape in the morning, when nothing of the sort has occured? Which does happen from time to time.

    The false reporting rate for rape is around 3%, according to the Home Office. So yes, it does happen, but not half as much as the right-wing media love to portray. Most women don't go around claiming rape when they haven't been raped. Even more importantly, most women don't go around claiming rape even when they HAVE been raped.

    Out of my friendship circle I know of four women who have been raped, two women who've experienced severe emotional abuse from their male partner and another woman who experienced an attempted rape (although I suspect that it was more than 'attempted', not that it's any of my business). One of the women has been raped by about three different boyfriends and the most depressing thing about it is that she thinks that a boyfriend forcing her to do stuff is normal and her fault. Professionally I've had several young women confide rape or domestic violence in me. Maybe my friends are just really unlucky, but I don't think they are.

    It's thought that as many as one in five women will experience sexual violence in their lifetime, and I can honestly believe that. Men will also experience sexual violence from other men, but figures are a lot harder to come by because most men will never ever admit that they were raped or abused by another man.

    In that context, the "fear that a random will scream rape" is misguided in the extreme. You can generally protect yourself from false allegations by being sensible- don't sleep with someone if they're paralytic from drink or drugs and make sure you get a clear yes before you sleep with them. And that isn't as hard to do as some men try to claim- "fuck me harder big boy" is pretty clear consent.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's thought that as many as one in five women will experience sexual violence in their lifetime, and I can honestly believe that. Men will also experience sexual violence from other men, but figures are a lot harder to come by because most men will never ever admit that they were raped or abused by another man.

    Sexual violence isn't always "full" rape, either. I was on a bus once where a man grabbed my nipple and twisted it - that's the worst case of harassment I've experienced but being groped on public transport in London is apparently not unusual. I didn't say anything, I wouldn't know how. I just get off the bus / tube / whatever as quickly as possible.

    This happens whatever I'm wearing. Although I do get more comments if I wear a skirt or look like I've made an effort (which was obviously entirely for the benefit of randoms in the street :rolleyes: ) when someone is just interested in feeling a woman up I don't think they even look at them it's just about who's there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the figures do just mean more severe cases of sexual violence, so rape or indecent assault of a fairly intimate and serious nature. I don't think they include having your bottom pinched on a bus or tube or in a nightclub because, if they did, I'd expect the figures to be more like 99% of women.

    Public transport groping and upskirt photographs are about the power trip I think, so it doesn't matter what you're wearing or who you are. Whether you're dressed up to the nines or a 13-year-old in your school uniform or in a hoody and tracky bottoms, they'll still do it, even more so if you're young and unlikely to fight back (like schoolgirls often are) or if you clearly have self-confidence or body issues.

    I think nightclub and gig groping is less clear cut, I think sometimes it's about a power thing and sometimes it's just men being pissed and misreading the boundaries, not that it makes it any more pleasant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the figures do just mean more severe cases of sexual violence, so rape or indecent assault of a fairly intimate and serious nature. I don't think they include having your bottom pinched on a bus or tube or in a nightclub because, if they did, I'd expect the figures to be more like 99% of women.

    I was unclear, I wasn't commenting on your statistic, just making an observation about how common other forms of violence (maybe I should have said violation) are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The way some men act is inexcusable, but saying the worst that can happen if a woman is shouting stuff at you is laugh, is ignoring the point that in most cases a wolfwhistle (going back to the original story) in broad daylight accross the street [whilst totally wrong] doesnt mean someone is going to get raped.

    It doesnt sit quite right in my mind that its ok for a woman to assume the worst, yet if a bloke did, he would get laughed at?
Sign In or Register to comment.