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Minimum alcohol pricing

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Story- gov proposing minimum alcohol pricing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12212240

I say it's pointless as it won't affect the prices noticeably anyway.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is pointless in its current form, pubs complain about supermarkets selling alcohol as a loss leader, however there might be a few cheaper priced pubs complain that they will have to put prices up.

    Whilst it won't work, I don't think it is one of these lets just do it for the votes things, I (perhaps mistakingly) think its a piece of legislation at least with the right intent.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another, albeit almost negligible, step toward pricing poorer people out of the booze market. Next stop: world peace. Choo choo!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another, albeit almost negligible, step toward pricing poorer people out of the booze market. Next stop: world peace. Choo choo!

    Yeah, rich people never cause trouble after drinking stupid amounts of alcohol, do they?

    cameron-bullingdon-club.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As always, tax is the solution. We just have to find the problem.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, rich people never cause trouble after drinking stupid amounts of alcohol, do they?

    I don't know if I've missed your tone or you missed mine. Or neither! But I was being entirely facetious. I'm just loathed to use flippin' smiley faces.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As always, tax is the solution. We just have to find the problem.

    This was my first reaction, but I'm not sure tax is being raised in this case.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True enough, but if they get this in I think the amount will start to gently creep up. It always does- look at VAT for "luxury items" like, er, sanitary towels, clothes and heating fuel.

    In principle I agree with banning loss-leading promotions, especially as most drink related problems nowadays are caused by people 'pre loading' at home off cheap Tesco booze. People don't drink out like they used to- my employer's takings are half what they were ten years ago- and that encourages more drinking and more irresponsible drinking.

    But before they do that, perhaps they need to look at the disgusting anti-competitive behaviour of the thieving PubCos.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Igh. Baby steps toward prohibition.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In principle I agree with banning loss-leading promotions, especially as most drink related problems nowadays are caused by people 'pre loading' at home off cheap Tesco booze. People don't drink out like they used to- my employer's takings are half what they were ten years ago- and that encourages more drinking and more irresponsible drinking.

    I think attempting to socially engineer drinking habits - if that really is the purpose - by focusing on the price of alcohol betrays a woeful ignorance of our society and why people drink. There are a myriad of reasons as to why people drink, particuarly to excess, but I also hate this method of keeping the whole class behind to punish the few people who misbehave - it's fucking lazy as much as anything else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Igh. Baby steps toward prohibition.

    We ain't religious enough for that here in the UK.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, rich people never cause trouble after drinking stupid amounts of alcohol, do they?

    Is this about trouble-making though, or health issues caused by binge-drinking among young people? Over the last twenty years or so, there has been a steady rise in the number of people dying from alcohol abuse, while at the same time the average age is falling - alcoholics are dying younger. I think the concern is that the availability of cheap booze is a factor in people becoming alcohol-dependent at a younger age than in previous generations - thereby storing up a big health bill for the future.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We ain't religious enough for that here in the UK.

    Maybe not. But it's still leaning in that direction which is igh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the concern is that the availability of cheap booze is a factor in people becoming alcohol-dependent at a younger age than in previous generations - thereby storing up a big health bill for the future.

    But equally my employer- a Students' Union- has seen bar takings plummet. Most similar organisations have experienced similar effects on the profitability of their alcohol trading.

    They may be drinking more, but they're drinking at home. And I don't think the minimum pricing will make much difference on that. Due to the massive overheads, especially fuel tax and business taxes, imposed on the licensed trade, pubs can never hope to compete on price with supermarkets. And that's the fault of greedy Governments passing on the police bill to the licensed trade whilst most drink-related disorder stems from people who got plastered at home on three bottles of wine for £10 deals.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ramp up alcohol prices and what you eventually get is an active smuggling/homemade market for liquor.

    4 years ago no one bothered with the "illegal" alcohol. Now after I think 4 or 5 alcohol tax raises (no joke) and price hikes due to the currency weakening there's a very active market for a dodgy vodka-like liquor people are making in their basements that is very much illegal. Smuggled alcohol also sells like hot cakes and people are increasingly attempting to brew their own stuff.

    However, I think the UK has a long long way to go before that becomes your reality.

    *waves hi from bankrupt Iceland* :wave:

    Additionally, higher prices will reinforce people to drink more at home like Arctic Roll mentioned. We don't have this huge pub culture (and I must confess I'm glad, it doesn't appeal to me at all) and it's very common that people get hammered before heading downtown to save on the overpriced alcohol. It makes for a pretty barbaric atmosphere in the clubs. In some ways, without having really experienced it on my own skin, I think the drinking culture in Iceland and the UK has certain similarities. A lot of excessive drinking as opposed to more chilled moderate "enjoyment". I don't think pricing has got anything at all to do with the drinking culture of a nation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe not. But it's still leaning in that direction which is igh.

    Nah, wrong assessment there.

    Governments that are clever enough to tax alcohol and cigarettes would never see benefit from banning it. These tend to me major cash cows.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying they're going to ban it. I'm saying they're leaning in that direction; the direction of regulation. :P
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying they're going to ban it. I'm saying they're leaning in that direction; the direction of regulation. :P

    Alcohol is regulated to some extent in most European countries so what you're saying doesn't make sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying they're going to ban it. I'm saying they're leaning in that direction; the direction of regulation. :P

    It's a nothingness statement in that case. It's like intimating that the reduction of members of parliament by one or two after boundary changes is learning towards autocracy, but then saying it'll never happen when brought up on it; it's a thoroughly insipid and uninteresting assertion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Alcohol is regulated to some extent in most European countries so what you're saying doesn't make sense.

    Hence the keyword of "direction". ie: They're increasing regulation.
    It's a nothingness statement in that case. It's like intimating that the reduction of members of parliament by one or two after boundary changes is learning towards autocracy, but then saying it'll never happen when brought up on it; it's a thoroughly insipid and uninteresting assertion.

    I wasn't exactly making an argument. It was just an off-hand comment...

    And I didn't say it would never happen. I said "Maybe not" in response to someone else saying it. Maybe being the key word.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasn't exactly making an argument. It was just an off-hand comment...

    You reiterated the sentiment two or three times; I presumed you were doing so because you felt that setting minimum alcohol prices was in some way a precursor for prohibition, or perhaps a nod to it.
    And I didn't say it would never happen. I said "Maybe not" in response to someone else saying it. Maybe being the key word.

    Maybe Emma Watson's noshing me off as I type.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I only said it once and responded to people, who were posting to me thereafter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To my understanding prohibition and regulation are very different things.

    Regulation, which is what we've already got, is about restrictions. Prohibition bans it, which is never going to happen because of the tax.

    It seems like a bit of a non event really - the minimum prices don't look like they'll have much effect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't say they were the same thing. I didn't even say that prohibition was going to happen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't say they were the same thing. I didn't even say that prohibition was going to happen.

    I don't think you'll find that I suggested you did. I was merely pointing out that there's quite a big difference in my understanding between a lean towards prohibition and a moving towards closer regaulation and taxation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh. Well, yes, there's a difference between the two. My comment was based simply in statism. So, if prohibition is at the absolute peak of statism for alcohol, then raising taxes and increasing regulation is a notch up in that direction, but not necessarily that tier. Honestly, I didn't even expect anyone to notice/respond to what I had said. I'll be sure to better phrase my passing comments in the future. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Igh. Baby steps toward prohibition.

    Nah no party would have the balls to try that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This was my first reaction, but I'm not sure tax is being raised in this case.

    If the price is raised then the goverment take more in VAT, in my opinion this is no more than a tory stealth tax.

    Its not a high enough rise to have any serious impact, you will still be able to buy a can of Lager for 38p compare that to a can of coke!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As for the OP, it's a waste of time, does nothing to address the issue which is cultural.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Louisek wrote: »
    If the price is raised then the goverment take more in VAT, in my opinion this is no more than a tory stealth tax.

    Its not a high enough rise to have any serious impact, you will still be able to buy a can of Lager for 38p compare that to a can of coke!

    I do like these occasional mentions of "stealth" taxes! I usually know where and when and how im being taxed. Like VAT for example, a pretty obvious one ;)
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