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Where do you stand politically?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    consider if you're on the New York Subway and someone pulls a knife on you. Wouldn't you want the ability to pull a knife out and equal the playing field?.

    Most times you carry a knife. If you get into a fight it could easily be taken off you and used against you.
    Id rather it was illegal for everyone to carry knives and guns and for noone to have any legal loopholes for wriggling out of the fact theyre carrying a lethal weapon.

    Id rather avoid the new york subway if youre likely to get stabbed on it, rather than start carrying knives which i have no idea how to use, and no inclination to use on anyone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    This thread proves only one thing - my assertion is correct. Gun laws, like abortion, just has entrenched views.

    Just because someone can hold up their end of the argument and everyone doesn't immediately change views doesn't mean that no one is listening to the opposing side. I'm having a grand ole time seeing what people are coming up with, even if it's not causing me to make a 180 and change my mind all of a sudden. Discussions don't always have to be about changing the other person's mind. If you don't surround yourself with other viewpoints, though, you miss the opportunity to grow from that exposure. Either it confirms your viewpoint, or causes you to analyze it and maybe change it. Either outcome is just fine, as long as you're open to whichever one it happens to be.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most times you carry a knife. If you get into a fight it could easily be taken off you and used against you.
    Id rather it was illegal for everyone to carry knives and guns and for noone to have any legal loopholes for wriggling out of the fact theyre carrying a lethal weapon.

    Id rather avoid the new york subway if youre likely to get stabbed on it, rather than start carrying knives which i have no idea how to use, and no inclination to use on anyone.

    I'd like to live in a perfect world too, but that doesn't exist. And the government definitely isn't the way to get there.

    As for it being taken away from you: Okay. See how easy it is to catch someone's hand rampantly thrusting at you. If it were as easy as disarm-and-neutralize, no one would ever get stabbed. I, myself, am lucky enough to have an uncle in the marines who I was very close with growing up, who taught me the proper way to disarm weapons. That being said, I'd still feel safer not having to rely on that and having my own weapon to brandish swiftly, if need be.

    I understand it makes you feel uncomfortable, but thrown in the position where you're being under attack by a burly, armed man and you hypothetically have a gun or a knife on you. Would you not use it if it'd save your life?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I understand it makes you feel uncomfortable, but thrown in the position where you're being under attack by a burly, armed man and you hypothetically have a gun or a knife on you. Would you not use it if it'd save your life?

    Yes, but, you can easily become the burly, armed man. So that's invalid in my eyes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's not exactly a sound argument. For one, as I've pointed out numerous times before, buying a gun is not like buying bubble gun. Two, your point is completely non-sequitur. Three, it's basically implying that people have no sense of personal responsibility or conscience or even remote intelligence. Four, it doesn't change the fact that the person you'd be attacking would also have a weapon that they can use on you, serving as a deterrent for you to attack them in the first place.

    ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It should also be noted that the United States is a much bigger country than the U.K. and most of its individual states are larger than England, alone. As such, the rate of anything is going to be substantially higher. A more accurate argument would be comparing U.S. violence to all of Europe.

    Just a quick factual point. There isn't a single US state that is the same size as England. And I don't see how comparing America to 730 million Europeans would be any more accurate. Best to go with per-capita statistics, in which America doesn't come out too well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd say that my politics are democratic socialist.

    I'm a believer in a women's right to choose what to do with her body, including abortion.

    I don't think there should be private schools, or religious schools.

    All drugs should be legalised.

    There should be investment in urban agriculture and making communities sustainable, in anticipation of peak oil...

    ect ect
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »

    I don't think there should be private schools, or religious schools.

    Do you think all children should have to go to state schools then, or do you think home school or private tutors is ok?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just a quick factual point. There isn't a single US state that is the same size as England. And I don't see how comparing America to 730 million Europeans would be any more accurate. Best to go with per-capita statistics, in which America doesn't come out too well.

    I already covered per-capita statistics. If you skipped it, go back and read it. But as I said, there's no real accurate way to compare.

    I misspoke when I said all of Europe. I meant the European Union, which, according to europa.eu, has a population of 495 million. Not exceedingly far off from the U.S.'s 311 million.

    But even if I were referring to the entire continent of Europe. A 311 million population of the U.S. compared to the population of Europe is closer to the population of America versus, say, Slovania (2 million).

    Again, that doesn't make comparisons accurate, but it's more accurate.

    And what? You're saying that Texas isn't bigger than England?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Do you think all children should have to go to state schools then, or do you think home school or private tutors is ok?

    In an ideal world I think everyone from Play School through to Uni should be educated in state schools, it seems really unfair that the best education opportunities are only available to those who can afford them.

    I also think that religious schools can lead to segregation and just lead to more ignorance and suspicion of all our diffrent religions and cultures.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you think they should HAVE to go through state education though, take the choice away from parents to teach their own children whatever they want in the way that they want? Currently, school isn't compulsory, do you think it should be?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really believe that the best place to learn is in good well run state schools with motivated well paid teachers.

    The knowledge base and resources must be better than can be offered at home.

    I wonder how many parents who home educate do it because they feel they can better impart their own beliefs and values on to their children as well as protect them from the nastier side of peoples opinions and beliefs.

    I think that by having places where all children mix, learn and grow together we can take steps towards a society where we all understand each others cultures, sexualitys, beliefs etc.
    Maybe a couple of generations down the line we might all learn to love each other instead of trying to destroy each other.

    I guess what i am trying to say is that school is not just about education it also teaches us about life and who we are and if it was run the right way (again in my ideal world) we could turn out happy well balanced caring people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't dismiss anything...

    Yet......
    Yes, as I said before, I honestly don't care what you guys do in the U.K. Like I said before, comparing countries is silly because no two countries are exactly the same. Apples and oranges.


    Mentions and comparisons with the UK, of which is the country most of us have detailed knowledge about, appear according to your statement to be of little use to any discussion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And what? You're saying that Texas isn't bigger than England?

    Erm yeah. England has twice as many people as Texas.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Erm yeah. England has twice as many people as Texas.

    Death from firearms in the UK 0.4 per 100,000 population

    Texas... 11.0

    Interestingly the lowest rate is in Hawaii with 2.8 whilst DC is highest with 31.2

    Just as an aside.

    Source
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Do you think they should HAVE to go through state education though, take the choice away from parents to teach their own children whatever they want in the way that they want?

    Leaving the whole public/private education aside for a second, I don't see how demanding that children are taught by qualified professionals is any more controversial than saying that a medical procedure should be carried out by someone qualified to do so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Death from firearms in the UK 0.4 per 100,000 population

    Be careful not to include Northern Ireland in the UK stats though, because guns are legal there, and firearms deaths are much higher than England and Wales or Scotland.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Control is irrelevant - its whether there was a use for the gun in the culture and whether those who were picking them up for 'political' reasons would be crushed by the state.

    Yes, I agree but that in itself (history has shown) is the reason behind most of the resultant legislation. Wouldn't that make control relevant ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Be careful not to include Northern Ireland in the UK stats though, because guns are legal there, and firearms deaths are much higher than England and Wales or Scotland.

    Sorry, that was England only
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You'll find that very few gun advocates advocate legalizing sniper rifles.

    My boss has a very deadly looking Accuracy International number.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Leaving the whole public/private education aside for a second, I don't see how demanding that children are taught by qualified professionals is any more controversial than saying that a medical procedure should be carried out by someone qualified to do so.

    If we understood education I'd agree with you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Leaving the whole public/private education aside for a second, I don't see how demanding that children are taught by qualified professionals is any more controversial than saying that a medical procedure should be carried out by someone qualified to do so.

    The comparison doesn't work for me. And, if it did, where do you start? A child has to be educated by a professional, or from birth, or an arbitrary number of months since they were born?

    Should parents and carers be trusted to teach their children to walk, talk, read and write, but not to learn how solve an equation or speak another language? If the parent or carer is educated to the same level as a professional teacher, would it then be ok for them to do the teaching themselves?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Louisek wrote: »
    In an ideal world I think everyone from Play School through to Uni should be educated in state schools.
    Louisek wrote: »
    I really believe that the best place to learn is in good well run state schools with motivated well paid teachers.
    I don't see how demanding that children are taught by qualified professionals is any more controversial than saying that a medical procedure should be carried out by someone qualified to do so.

    These boards are apparently awash with liberals and libertarians ?

    Maybe,in Orwell's Doublespeak world, Komrades.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    These boards are apparently awash with liberals and libertarians ?

    I'm not sure either have described themselves as such in this thread.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    The comparison doesn't work for me. And, if it did, where do you start? A child has to be educated by a professional, or from birth, or an arbitrary number of months since they were born?

    Should parents and carers be trusted to teach their children to walk, talk, read and write, but not to learn how solve an equation or speak another language? If the parent or carer is educated to the same level as a professional teacher, would it then be ok for them to do the teaching themselves?

    Logically, yes. Just like if a parent was a qualified surgeon, they could carry out an operation on their own child if they wanted to. The difference here isn't that parents are banned from doing any of these things, just that they can't deny the right of their children to access professional education as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    I'm not sure either have described themselves as such in this thread.

    Why do you have to ruin another load of strawman bullshit with your pesky facts?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Logically, yes. Just like if a parent was a qualified surgeon, they could carry out an operation on their own child if they wanted to. The difference here isn't that parents are banned from doing any of these things, just that they can't deny the right of their children to access professional education as well.

    Performing an operation on someone and practising verb drills don't equate to the same degree of speciality of knowledge application of that knowledge.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Performing an operation on someone and practising verb drills don't equate to the same degree of speciality of knowledge application of that knowledge.

    Maybe not, but when homeschooling, I believe you still get inspections from ofsted to ensure that you're meeting the requirements and giving your child a rounded education. But I can't believe there is any parent with the time and expertise to be able to teach 10 subjects to GCSE level, for example.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    I'm not sure either have described themselves as such in this thread.

    Me neither.

    A mere response to the observation that
    Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen so many libertarians on one forum before. xD

    I did not and still do not share that vision.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Na, you don't have to have inspections. I don't agree with the idea that all children NEED to be taught ten subects to GCSE level to be taken the academic year they turn 16 - it seems pretty silly to me. Sure, have the standard test so that people can be compared but, everyone learning the same stuff at the same time just seems absurd to me.
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