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apprenticeship..annual leave

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
ahhhhhhhhhhghghghgh...release steam.. phew.

i'm on an apprenticeship and have been at my placement at a residential home now for almost 3 months and i put in a written request two weeks ago to the manager asking for one day off this friday. i hadn't heard anything back but i could tell she had seen the request. i asked today expecting a yeah of course let me change the rota but no.

i get bombarded with a hell of a lot of excuses.
1) she said she wasn't made aware of the rules surrounding our annual leave by the company in charge of the apprenticeships at the begining
2) she didn't know whether annual leave went to their rules or to the rules of the apprenticeship company. so she emailed her head office and they told her that i couldnt have it because i havent been working there for 3 months.
3) it was too late to sort it out now because otherwise they would be short staffed.

so like the stupid wanker that i am i say 'umm okay'.

now only later i think hey wtf, here is what i should have said:
1) that is your responsability and the apprenticeship company's responsability. i know that i am entitled to annual leave.
2) same as above really. also if there was a problem/query she should have sorted it or let me know asap so that i could remedy it and make sure that i have this friday off. not do nothing then say no when i remind her about it today. also my placement is for only 3 months so by that rule i am not entitled to annual leave..ever.
3) of course it's too late, you sat on your hands and waited. plus i am an apprentice so am pretty sure that i am super numeray, if you are short staffed it shouldnt make a difference whether i am there or not.

i just want this friday, ONE day. off for annual leave to organise my fricking birthday party. also i am working a 12 hour day the day before on my birthday and i do not want to do a 12 hour day again. i work my arse off there and my mum is pretty adament the manager is just trying to use me. so i'm gonna ring the lady from the apprenticeship company who will probably pass me over to another organisation that is in charge of my pay roll and holidays. then they will tell me off for not putting in the request for holiday sooner with them (i am supposed to fax it through) but i was being a tit and waiting for my manager to confirm that it was okay.

so fecked off right now, i work so hard for fuckall money. and i get asked by the manager what i wanted it off for. ..'to organise my birthday party'.
to which she responds 'awh bless' before shitting all over my perfectly legitimate request.



  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your employer can refuse permission for your holiday as long as they give you notice which is at least as long as the holiday requested. So to refuse a request for a week's leave, they would have to tell you a week in advance.

    Your contract may set out other rules about when you can take your holiday. This is allowed so long as the rules don't effectively prevent you from taking holiday at all.

    You have to get 1.4 weeks leave, but how that is done depends on your contract.
  • LauraOLauraO Posts: 535 Incredible Poster
    Hi Clementine,

    This sounds really frustrating for you :banghead:

    A similar question about apprenticeships was asked to our Need an Answer service on TheSite.org's sister site Lifetracks. Here is the answer which may help as it explains that apprentices are entitled to regular holidays (20 days per year) just like any other employee. The answer has lots of information about your rights as an apprentice, which maybe useful and will make you feel more confident when speaking to your Manager or your apprenticeships company about your rights. Have you seen this article about Apprenticeships on TheSite too?

    Most employers do like you (or expect you to) give a certain amount of notice when you want to take leave, so its definitely worth speaking to your apprenticeships company about all of this and find out how much advance notice you are required to give your manager for next time. Although you did say you gave written notice with 2 weeks notice, so it does sound like you have taken this into consideration and it's a shame your Manager can be more cooperative. It is also worth mentioning that you shouldn't have to give a reason for taking leave, you can take it for whatever reason you like so she shouldn't be basing her decision on that.

    Hope you have some luck when speaking to the apprenticeships company and hope you still get to organise your party :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hi thanks :) im looking through the reply now.

    i rang the woman from the council who organised my apprenticeship and she agreed it was pretty unfair but as i only reminded my manager about it on monday then it could be considered too short notice to change the rota and that i should have checked it out sooner. so i told her that i think the manager should have come back to me if there was a problem. she pretty much shrugged, if you can even shrug over the telephone. she then told me that i do count as staff and am not supernumeray..

    i was really pissed off by this point and so was my mum, she rang the apprenticeship company in charge of paying me and liasing with our host companies etc. she explained the situation to the guy who said it was unfair and that i AM supernumeray (mixed messages or what??) and that my host company are pretty much rubbing it in my face making me work two double shifts (12 hours tomorrow and 12 hours on friday). she did explain that our annual leave had started accrueing in november so i was entitled to much more than 1 day.

    so.. he rang my manager who told him that i didnt seem to have a problem with it when i talked to her, that i have to give 28 days notice for annual leave (so 28 days notice for ONE day off) but she would be happy for me to try and swap the shift with someone. which i cant imagine anyone doing now at such short notice. so 12 hours tomorrow on my BIRTHDAY and 12 hours on friday. i could cry right now. i really could. and this is my day off and i shouldnt be getting stressed and upset but i am.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is what happens with placement and apprentice workers; the employers treat you like shit because they know they can. It's a big problem, one that the TUC are trying (without success) to rectify.

    If I were you I'd have a talk with ACAS about what is happening. The legal position for an employee is that an employer can refuse holiday and can stipulate when some or all of your holiday must be used. However in practice it is generally accepted that if you give notice equivalent to the amount of time you want off, with a minimum of one week, that is acceptable. Demanding 28 days notice for one day off is pushing it a bit.

    The problem with these schemes is that so many of the usual employment laws don't apply, so you get treated like shite. So what do our friends in the Conservative Party decide to do? Change the fucking law to make everyone have no employment rights.
  • LauraOLauraO Posts: 535 Incredible Poster
    Hi again Clementine,
    It sounds as thought you are getting different messages from different people which can be really annoying.

    28 days notice for 1 days leave does seem quite a lot as Arctic Roll says and you shouldn't really be responsible for reminding your manager if you sent her a written letter. However, all employers have different rules around notice for leave and at least you know the process for next time.

    Is there someone you could contact to swap shifts with you?

    It might be a good idea to find out from your Manager how much leave you are entitled to so that you know this going forwards. Everyone needs time off :)

    Hope you get your shift swapped for Friday and the confusion is sorted so next time you want a day off it wont be such a difficult process.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thanks guys :)

    arctic- im just gonna leave it, it's a pilot scheme and my mum made sure the apprenticeship scheme was well aware of the enormous fuck up in communication. he says he is going to feed it back at the meeting.

    laura- thanks too, i'm only there for another two weeks before my next placement so going by her weird rule, i wont get any annual leave whilst im there. i think i just want to get this week over and done with so i can enjoy the weekend, dont really want my shift swapped because i'd obv have to do someone else's shift next week and i like that i only have one 12 hour shift next week.

    bahhh :( have a feeling my manager is gonna say something tomorrow along the lines of 'why didnt you say something was up at the time?'. i might just say 'shaddap it's my birthday..' or 'nothing was up. it seemed you were confused about annual leave and so was i, i spoke to the guy who does know about it. he rang you i guess to clear it up''.
  • LauraOLauraO Posts: 535 Incredible Poster
    'nothing was up. it seemed you were confused about annual leave and so was i, i spoke to the guy who does know about it. he rang you i guess to clear it up''.

    :yes: this one!

    and Happy Birthday :birthday: hope you have a great day (after your shift) and a fun party!
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