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The EDL makes c**ts of themselves yet again

SystemSystem Posts: 8,629 Staff Team
Just saw this on another board...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4-_ihhZbDg


Fucking imbeciles :d :d
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't like the EDL.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I really don't like the EDL.

    Does anyone?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sadly I know of a few who went to my school.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Just saw this on another board...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4-_ihhZbDg

    Fucking imbeciles :d :d

    I can't understand a word of what's been said in that video. I think I caught the word 'Halal'.

    Can you give a quick synopsis?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They don't want Halal meat in KFC, because they're running trials, just like many other outlets have over the years, I remember Pizza Hut did a Halal menu. If you read some stories on it they say they're protesting for "animal rights", which is bullshit. They're only protesting because they don't want anything Islamic in their region.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    They don't want Halal meat in KFC, because they're running trials, just like many other outlets have over the years, I remember Pizza Hut did a Halal menu. If you read some stories on it they say they're protesting for "animal rights", which is bullshit. They're only protesting because they don't want anything Islamic in their region.

    They're right for the wrong reasons.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right about what?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I really don't like the EDL.

    I love the EDL. It's nice to be able to feel superior to someone for a change!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    Right about what?

    In arguing that Halal meat shouldn't be sold in KFC - or anywhere else for that matter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't understand a word of what's been said in that video. I think I caught the word 'Halal'.

    Ha Ha. Same.

    Isn't Halal meat the slaughter of animals by cutting their throats and letting them bleed to death ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes. By law all meat sold in this country must be from animals who have been stunned prior to slaughter. Halal and Kosher are exempt.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A company like KFC won't be using halal meat because it is giving the public what it wants, it'll be using it because the factory where the meat is produced is cheapest. Nothing else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with CptCoatHanger and Rubberskin. The halal and kosher methods causes the animals more suffering, and shouldn't in truth be allowed under animal cruelty laws. But, seen as the Jews and Muslims want it so we have to have it :no:

    So yes, in this case the EDL are right, in the same way that a stopped watch is right twice a day :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lets not feel so great about ourselves because our meat is "stunned" by electricity or percussion before its throat is cut and its hung upside down to die just like its halal counterpart...

    Im sure the pain is still felt.

    Its still bleeding out before death.

    My friend was unconcius with a broken hand that was undetected, when people held her hand she was screaming inside and felt all the pain, she was in a coma for a while and when she fortunately woke up she could raise the alarm about her hand... Admittedly she was not stunned by electricity, but just because someones laying their looking braindead doesnt mean they dont feel pain.

    Hopefully the brain is severly fu**ed up by the stunning but im sure thats not always the case, but then again no one wants to know that animals might have suffered severe pain every time they eat a ham sandwich or hold a barbeque so lets pretend its all ok... :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im sure the pain is still felt.

    You can be sure all you want, but scientific trials would suggest otherwise. However, I agree with the main part of your argument. Let's not pretend to get all moralistic over the treatment of chickens in KFC ffs. As if a halal slaughter is the worst thing that happened to them. Having said that, I also agree that if we have laws about the ethical treatment of animals, nobody should be exempt from that because of a bunch of unproven mumbo jumbo, no matter how deeply they believe it. Muslims in other countries have no problem pre-stunning animals for halal meat. What is very revealing, of course, is the opposition even to giving consumers the correct information on packaging that we see from the kosher and halal lobbies, and the cries of discrimination for forcing them to acknowledge their exception to the law on the products they're selling.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The halal and kosher methods causes the animals more suffering, and shouldn't in truth be allowed under animal cruelty laws.

    There was a big documentary thing about this on the telly a few months ago. Did anyone else see it? Apparently the majority of the meat you by in the supermarkets ready meals and stuff is halal meat and has been for quite some time now, so these guys have probably been eating it for years and just not known it. Also they visited one of the biggest halal slaughter houses in the country, and put forward the concerns that the animals are suffering unnecessarily. But it turns out that this particular one does stun the animals before killing them, you even got to see them do it, which wasn’t very nice, but the thing was definitely unconscious before it got killed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    make it cheap and put that yummeh stuff on the skin and I want it. Not keen on mumbo jumbo but am not really arsed about the way other animals die.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can be sure all you want, but scientific trials would suggest otherwise.

    Which scientific trials are those ?
    Having said that, I also agree that if we have laws about the ethical treatment of animals, nobody should be exempt from that because of a bunch of unproven mumbo jumbo, no matter how deeply they believe it..

    Like it or not, the mumbo jumbo is the foundation of English Law.

    I would also suggest that the laws are only about so called ethical treatment of animals that have entered the field of commerce.

    For example, I could lawfully slit the throat of my goat and enjoy a delicious bowl of goat's head soup (one for the oldies) despite having no affiliation with any religious organisation.
    Muslims in other countries have no problem pre-stunning animals for halal meat. .

    The majority of animals destined for the Halal trade in the UK are stunned before slaughter.
    What is very revealing, of course, is the opposition even to giving consumers the correct information on packaging that we see from the kosher and halal lobbies, and the cries of discrimination for forcing them to acknowledge their exception to the law on the products they're selling.

    Would you be agreeable to commercial meat packaging that was labelled "electrocuted", "gassed", "clubbed", "stunned", "shot" etc ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For example, I could lawfully slit the throat of my goat and enjoy a delicious bowl of goat's head soup (one for the oldies) despite having no affiliation with any religious organisation.

    There are laws and regulations in place about how you'd be able to kill that animal. And what you'd be able to do with it once you killed it, especially if it was slaughtered outside an abattoir or "knacker's yard".

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/731/contents/made

    http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/slaughter/
    The majority of animals destined for the Halal trade in the UK are stunned before slaughter.

    You're going to have bring evidence for that.
    Would you be agreeable to commercial meat packaging that was labelled "electrocuted", "gassed", "clubbed", "stunned", "shot" etc?

    Sure. No problem with that.

    I'd also like to put "the juju man cast the correct spells and made righteous propitiations to his God(s) while dancing round this goat" on meat slaughtered in accordance with wacky religious customs.

    ETA: If you're going to give me one of your standard, nebulous-yet-wordy non-answers, I'll just assume it and save you the bother of writing it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are laws and regulations in place about how you'd be able to kill that animal..

    Yes that is what I said.
    And what you'd be able to do with it once you killed it, especially if it was slaughtered outside an abattoir or "knacker's yard"..

    I know of no law that forbids goat's head soup.

    Perhaps you could help diminish my almost infinite ignorance ?
    You're going to have bring evidence for that.

    You are going to have to accept Government statistics because that is all I have. (And if you cannot trust your Government, who can you trust ?)

    Report on the Welfare of Livestock when Slaughtered by Religious Methods, Farm Animal Welfare Council (available from HMSO)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know of no law that forbids goat's head soup.

    Perhaps you could help diminish my almost infinite ignorance?

    I'm not saying that goat's head soup is illegal.

    I am saying that you couldn't in fact, as you previously stated, "lawfully slit the throat of [a] goat ... despite having no affiliation with any religious organisation", unless the aforementioned goat was stunned (and stunned by someone with "knowledge and skill necessary to perform those tasks humanely and efficiently in accordance with ... regulations"). You might be able slit the goat's throat if you did a juju dance at the same time, but that's because barbarism in the name of religion enjoys special dispensation.
    You are going to have to accept Government statistics because that is all I have. (And if you cannot trust your Government, who can you trust ?)

    Report on the Welfare of Livestock when Slaughtered by Religious Methods, Farm Animal Welfare Council (available from HMSO)

    I'd appreciate it if you could be a little more specific, there's a myriad of information to wade through on that site, and I'm presuming you've previously read the report in question.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not saying that goat's head soup is illegal.

    I am saying that you couldn't in fact, as you previously stated, "lawfully slit the throat of [a] goat ... despite having no affiliation with any religious organisation", unless the aforementioned goat was stunned (and stunned by someone with "knowledge and skill necessary to perform those tasks humanely and efficiently in accordance with ... regulations")..

    I am saying that I could, in fact,as I previously stated,"lawfully slit the throat of my goat ... despite having no affiliation with any religious organisation" even if my aforementioned goat was not stunned (and no juju dance performed).
    You might be able slit the goat's throat if you did a juju dance at the same time, but that's because barbarism in the name of religion enjoys special dispensation.

    It seems you are in need of emotional rescue (I can't get Keef out of my head).

    Conduct unbecoming of someone who appears to worship the God of Rationality, wouldn't you say ?
    I'd appreciate it if you could be a little more specific, there's a myriad of information to wade through on that site, and I'm presuming you've previously read the report in question.

    That organisation have removed the document from their archives, for whatever reason. That is why I pointed out it is available from HMSO (for a fee, of course)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Against my better judgement I'll continue with this, as you're starting to revert to your regular patterns. Hopefully the exchange may be useful to someone else.
    I am saying that I could, in fact,as I previously stated,"lawfully slit the throat of my goat ... despite having no affiliation with any religious organisation" even if my aforementioned goat was not stunned (and no juju dance performed).

    It's my understanding that you'd be in direct contravention of The Welfare of Animals Regulations if you were to slaughter a conscious goat at home: parts I and III.16 attest to this (found in the links of my previous post). In the same way it would be illegal to sell for public consumption a bowl of your goat's head soup were you to have killed the animal anywhere else other than an abattoir.

    Now you can say "nuh-uh", but if you don't think that's the case then break a habit of a lifetime and actually say why, specifically.
    It seems you are in need of emotional rescue (I can't get Keef out of my head).

    Conduct unbecoming of someone who appears to worship the God of Rationality, wouldn't you say ?

    Address the point or go suck a fuck.
    That organisation have removed the document from their archives, for whatever reason. That is why I pointed out it is available from HMSO (for a fee, of course)

    Convenient.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    EDL - wow, I just wanted the youtube of them in London. It's scary how dumb these people are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's my understanding that you'd be in direct contravention of The Welfare of Animals Regulations if you were to slaughter a conscious goat at home: parts I and III.16 attest to this (found in the links of my previous post).

    In my defence to your allegations, I would cite Schedule 12 section 8.
    In the same way it would be illegal to sell for public consumption a bowl of your goat's head soup were you to have killed the animal anywhere else other than an abattoir.

    For the avoidance of doubt of all witnesses present (or not), I have no intention of allowing my reared from birth, lovingly nurtured and organically fed goat to enter the field of commerce following its humane slaughter.

    (Perhaps this is due to being a selfish pig but fear not,as the scientific "food" producers are working extremely hard as we speak getting Dolly clones (and such like) on the production line along with a plethora of genetically modified fruit and vegetables in addition to the chemical soup of additives. Mmmmm . . . . bootiful ! )
    Convenient.

    For your convenience, (and at no extra charge) here is a link to a very recent Parliament research study that makes reference to that hard to (freely) obtain pamphlet. I hope you can get some satisfaction ;)

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsc-01314.pdf

    Have a good day.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In my defence to your allegations, I would cite Schedule 12 section 8.

    This?
    Slaughter by a religious method elsewhere than in a slaughterhouse

    8. No person shall slaughter any animal by a religious method, or cause or permit any animal to be so slaughtered, elsewhere than in a slaughterhouse unless the slaughter is carried out in the presence of an authorised person.

    For your convenience, (and at no extra charge) here is a link to a very recent Parliament research study that makes reference to that hard to (freely) obtain pamphlet. I hope you can get some satisfaction ;)

    http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsc-01314.pdf

    Have a good day.

    I'll have a read of this later.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regarding the EDL, I think it's important to bear one thing in mind. It's more of a movement than a cohesive organisation, and as such has supporters who are former members of C18 and current members of the BNP, but on the flipside also has followers who are just your right of centre 'lets keep Britain British' folk who are generally good people. There was a panorama on the EDL that was very eye opening. A significant proportion of the guys turning up were just annoyed at the joblessness they perceived to be because of lax immigration controls.

    It's probably a closer analogy to say that the EDL movement is akin to the students against tuition fees increases. Many supporters from many backgrounds, some violent, some not, no 'real' organisation. I think the danger is that the legitimate discourse and issues raised by the EDL (whether you agree with them or not, you can agree that a discussion and opinions around whether sharia law should be introduced alongside british law, that kind of thing, are legitimate discourse in a democracy) will be sidelined both by the more militant EDL supporters who want a fight, and by the more militant opposition who want to paint them all with the same brush to shut them down completely.

    There was a good article on the BBC about Ghandi's non violent protests, and that was very much an organised affair. 70 hand picked men and women given training and instruction in non-violent protest. If you just pick a date and say 'lets have a rally here, for this cause' whether its student loans or 'Englishness' you're going to have troublesome elements.

    I think I agree with the commentator in that article that simply a show of numbers these days seems to be largely politically ineffective - 1 million turned out against the war and did the government change their mind? Did the government pause for a moment? Absolutely not.

    Regarding meat, meat tastes good, and I want to pay the lowest price for it. I think legislators are obligated though to ensure the meat is kept in good standards and that its healthy, too. There is a lot of lobbying from the food industries against regulation though. As such, go to tescos and buy a premade chicken kiev. Notice where the chicken is from? Notice a particularly high salt content?

    These chickens are raised in brazil where chopped down rainforest makes stupidly cheap land for raising all kinds of livestock, then they're slaughtered, and stored in salt. This is because salted goods imported from brazil to the EU have less tax due on them than fresh / frozen goods. They get to belgium and holland, and go in a big washing machine to get rid of as much salt as possible. Then the meat is recovered by machines, made into a kiev so the excessive salty taste is hidden by garlic and so on, and sold in our supermarkets. Many ready made chicken products are the same, because this chicken is so dirt cheap.

    So I won't get this for the lowest price, because I perceive to be bad for the environment, bad for my health, bad for the chicken welfare (since brazil doesn't have the same checks as us) and generally not great value if you consider those factors. It's a failure of regulators to stop it which means I have to opt to pay more.

    Things like organic food though, that's just middle-class tax. People pay more to feel and look more middle class.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Regarding the EDL, I think it's important to bear one thing in mind. It's more of a movement than a cohesive organisation, and as such has supporters who are former members of C18 and current members of the BNP, but on the flipside also has followers who are just your right of centre 'lets keep Britain British' folk who are generally good people. There was a panorama on the EDL that was very eye opening. A significant proportion of the guys turning up were just annoyed at the joblessness they perceived to be because of lax immigration controls.

    You're right about this. To claim the EDL is a neo-Nazi organisation is laughable considering their propensity to fly Israeli flags and having black, asian and mixed race people in official capacities as regional organisers etc. They're a mixed bag.

    Re the main topic, Halal meat is a legitimate issue. Muslims do want Halal to become the standard, aisde from the religious aspect the argument is that businesses would increase profit through Islamic custom.

    I don't actually know if the Halal method is as bad as made out - muslims I know swear it is a relatively painless method of death, to stun an animal before killing it is seen as disrespectful - but either way, I do no want to see such a change in how our food is produced to suit any minority purely on principle.

    So the EDL are right on this one as far as I'm concerned and its the UAF making cunts of themselves siding with mobs of baying Islamicists who are politically situated far closer to fascism than your average EDL supporter. Can irony be any more blatant?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From what I've seen from the EDL (having seen two of their demonstrations), it appears to me that a lot of their members are football hooligan thugs. Seriously. Who goes around political demonstrations chanting football songs? And, contrary to what their website says, they do have a massive anti-Islamic agenda. They try to dress it up as "oh we just want to keep Britain British" etc etc, but clearly they do have a problem with Muslims, calling them dirty scum and all other offensive names under the sun.

    I am not some Labour lefty, by the way. I have no problems with wanting to strictly control immigration and preserve British culture as much as possible, but the EDL definitely aren't the answer.
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