Home Politics & Debate

Kettling

2»

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    If you're thinking that I should do the same thing, risk the possibility of broken limbs, serious head injury or death, just so people can go for a piss, because that's my job? Words cannot accurately express what I'm thinking about that.

    Huh? I'm not saying that you should risk your life or injury so that people can go for a piss.

    I'm suggesting that you should take those risks to apprehend the criminals so that you don't have to detain innocent people. It troubles me that you seem so blase about that.

    There is something rotten in the borough when the Police think it's okay to detain innocent people just to make their job easier.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    repeats rotten
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Huh? I'm not saying that you should risk your life or injury so that people can go for a piss.

    I'm suggesting that you should take those risks to apprehend the criminals so that you don't have to detain innocent people. It troubles me that you seem so blase about that.

    There is something rotten in the borough when the Police think it's okay to detain innocent people just to make their job easier.

    Even if by taking down the criminals it creates a greater risk to the rest of the demonstrators, the general public, the police and to be honest the rioters themselves?

    Kettling isn't to make their job easier, but a safer way to contain large amounts of people in the ground between peaceful protest and a full-scale bloody riot. The alternative is either to pull back and let the mob rule or to go in hard with horses, tear gas and rubber bullets.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even if by taking down the criminals it creates a greater risk to the rest of the demonstrators, the general public, the police and to be honest the rioters themselves?

    Kettling isn't to make their job easier, but a safer way to contain large amounts of people in the ground between peaceful protest and a full-scale bloody riot. The alternative is either to pull back and let the mob rule or to go in hard with horses, tear gas and rubber bullets.

    Here's a novel thought, don't lose control in the first place? Certainly they manage that with football crowds these days.

    Second option is to go after the criminals themselves.

    Kettling should absolutely, without question, be the last resort. It should not be the immediate response in the way it seems to be these days.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Here's a novel thought, don't lose control in the first place? Certainly they manage that with football crowds these days.

    Second option is to go after the criminals themselves.

    Kettling should absolutely, without question, be the last resort. It should not be the immediate response in the way it seems to be these days.

    That's the point of kettling isn't it though, to stop them loosing control. I'm sure the police would prefer not to loose control, but when they're on the edge they need to kettle (as they do with football crowds when they've lost control, but don't have to do with the well behaved crowds -just because there is a lot of people doesn't mean control has been lost).

    Kettling isn't by any means the last resort nor should it be. The last resort may have to be live rounds and even before that it can be rubber bullets, horse charges, tear gas. Kettling is to stop that having to happen or alternatively a mob running wild and potentially killing or seriously injuring people.

    Now you're right the police should target the criminals. I've done it in training running a snatch squad. It's great fun when the people you're snatching are soldiers, people get wrestled to the ground, the odd fist gets put in. People who've done it for real say its less amusing to find yourself being stamped on when down on the ground, or some crazed lunatic trying to gouge your face off. It's a great theory, but a bloody reality and whilst it may sometimes be the best option, sometimes (often) you let the bad guys go rather than have a bloody pitched battle.

    As an aside my wife went on it and was fine, no kettling, no riots, no maurauding police, just a bunch of middle class researchers singing. You hang around trouble though it comes back round you
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst I don't agree too much with the usage of kettling as a first resort, I also don't think its ok to use the excuse "we only set fire to the bus stop and smashed up the police van because we were kettled."

    I know there were many people who were not involved in the violence, but of those that were, I get the impression the violent/destructive acts would have happened regardless of kettling taking place or not, and those who did them use kettling as an excuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "What do we want?"
    "Our future!"
    "When do we want it?"
    "Now!"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Today is yesterdays future.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I have received a disturbing Email from somebody at the demo...

    A 15 year old student who led a walk out from a school in Sydenham was savagely attacked by police on Wednesday’s demonstration. Once kettled students saw police throw her off a wall, drag her on the ground and hit her leg repeatedly until her foot broke. She is in hospital but says she doesn’t regret going at all.

    We are asking supporters to send her messages of support in hospital by emailing [email protected].

    She alongside other students had participated in the school students against the Tories forum last week and had been inspired by the scale of the NUS demonstration.



    Does anybody know if this is true? :confused:

    I got it from a community group in the borough I work... It's by no means a sectarian movement, it is made up of all kinds of people, from a pensioners group, students, council tennants, civil servants, union members, people livin' and working locally (i.e. it's got decent people in it).

    I have looked online and so far, can't find a story... However, these things can take a couple of days to emerge.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it could very well be true, but it's highly unusual that there hasn't been any footage surface of it, what with there being 2 photographers to every protestor, or so it seems.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Huh? I'm not saying that you should risk your life or injury so that people can go for a piss.

    I'm suggesting that you should take those risks to apprehend the criminals so that you don't have to detain innocent people. It troubles me that you seem so blase about that.
    .

    You can word it however you like. The main argument so far against kettling has been the discomfort it causes to people caught inside the kettle. Either way, you're still suggesting that the police put themselves in harm's way when it is, really, totally unecessary.

    I'll say again, although you don't seem to be getting it. Wading into a group of several thousand people, when you're having enough trouble holding the line in the first place is not easy and it is not safe for anyone involved.

    You're taking a cop who only has to worry about and defend against attacks from one direction and putting him or her in a situation where they are totally surrounded.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    it could very well be true, but it's highly unusual that there hasn't been any footage surface of it, what with there being 2 photographers to every protestor, or so it seems.

    Like I say... It hasn't come from anyone unreliable and the people know the girl, allegedly.

    My experience of photographers is that they just wanna surround the minority of people causing vandalism (a la G20 in London)...

    I'm sitting on the fence with this one... Am reading all kinds of stuff. Don't wanna believe an adult (wo)man would mash up a 15 year old, but then people are people and there is scum out there...

    This won't stop me from protesting mind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I doubt it's true, it would be all over the papers.

    meanwhile, cops have feelings too...http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/mortified-police-deny-being-injured-by-ponces-201011253287/
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I doubt it's true, it would be all over the papers.

    Unless there is a DA Notice.

    (After all, according to the NUS, the future of the UK is at stake :rolleyes: )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I see no reason for that. I get the impression it's just activist crusties trying to show how 'facist' the police state is and all that crap.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You hang around trouble though it comes back round you

    Wise words, Flashman.

    (Perhaps wisdom is wasted on the young ?)
Sign In or Register to comment.