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Do the police make you feel safe, do you trust them?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What does 5-0 actually mean btw? I wondered :L

    There used to be an American cop show called Hawaii 5-0 :D
    Always makes me laugh when someone calls me one, especially when I ask them if they know what it even means.
    And... yeah, I guess I do have a bias view of the cops. But it's from experience. I'm sure, being in the police, you have had good experiences. So, you have to understand that people are going to go by what they know personally.
    It does seem though, that a lot of officer's have it in for teenagers or people on estates etc. When the real criminals are still free! All the major drug lords, henchmen, and fraudsters are all still out on the streets. Where as, a teenager drinking a can of strongbow gets in a load of shit! x

    Trouble is BA, the drug lords, fraudsters and their minions don't hang around on play parks or smash peoples' windows. The damage they cause isn't immediately evident, and when it is, it's to a small minority of people. We do surveys all the time asking people what they think we should concentrate on.

    Being in the know, I know it should be drug dealers, burglars e.t.c. Their most common answers are generally, car parking/dog fouling/youths hanging around on the street.
    I absolutely love it when we take down a drug dealer or a prolific burglar. Unfortunately they don't hang around on the street drinking cider. If they did they'd be easier to catch :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    It's what kids call us. Along with 5-0 e.t.c. despite nobody under the age of 18 knowing what 5-0 actually means.....


    A nation gets the police force it demands and the police force it deserves. And it seems we can't win. If we let someone off with a warning, we're soft on crime. If we stand back and let the drunkards fight in the street we're cowards.

    But when we actually do enforce the law? Well fuck me, every arm-chair cop and lawyer just comes flooding out the wood work to tell us how we should have done this or we should have done that despite having absolutely zero clue about what the job really entails.

    Yes there are arseholes in the police who let the rest of us down. They normally get weeded out during training. Some, unfortunately slip through and you end up with incidents like the above.

    As for the original question, do I feel safer with the police around? Well if it was a choice between a professional police force that for the most part adheres to procedure and genuinely has my best interests at heart, or a mob of vigilantes who beat up paediatricians because they're idiots? Well I think I know who I'm calling if my house gets burgled.

    And that's the crux of it. For every bully who is on some sort of ego-fuelled power trip there are ten of us who actually care about you, and your community. When you do ring us up at 5 minutes before our shift is supposed to end we'll put our coats back on and come back out. We're the ones who wade into fights to pull you out of them despite being out numbered and unarmed. Yes no doubt at some point we'll piss you off because unfortunately some laws, in your eyes are petty but we need to enforce them. But if you think we're bad, then the solution is simple. Fuck off to Russia, China, Zimbabwe, Iran or any other country where the police swan about doing whatever the fuck they want and see what the alternative is. Where instead of lining up in front of you during protests, they just shoot you. Where you're left to defend yourselves and your own interests, because the police are there to keep you in line and to look out for the government and nothing else. Where there is no such thing as PACE, or due process where interviews become interrogations, places where you're guilty, period.

    good points,

    haha i thought 'poor whowhere' as soon as i saw this thread :P
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just as an aside Hawawi 5-0 has also just restared as a remake on US TV, so expect to see it here soonish
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Has anyone seen 'Coppers' on 4oD? I'm more scared of chav scumbags :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    .........

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    I absolutely love it when we take down a drug dealer or a prolific burglar. Unfortunately they don't hang around on the street drinking cider. If they did they'd be easier to catch :thumb:

    I mean like... I know all the big drug lords aren't really in this country, but SURELY there are ways of finding the major drug dealers? I mean, the main guy in my area drives round in a really flash car, and dresses like a total pimp.. so he can't be that difficult to find!! He may as well wear a T-shit that says "I AM A DEALER" It's just stupid. Personally, I think the cops should dedicate more time out dealing with serious crime, instead of moving homeless people and confiscating cheap alcoholic drinks of chavs. x
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I live with somebody who has joined the police and all he seems to do is brag about it... :rolleyes: The other person I know who has joined the police is openly racist and my friend knows another police man back in Wales who supports the Nazi ideology. I have seen two police men attempt to intimidate an pensioner at a peaceful demonstration, I know a woman who alleges she was beaten up in a police cell, another man who says they threw him down the stairs. When I was beaten up very badly, the police didn't want to know (probably because of the paper work) and the same happened to my brother...

    I also had a clash with one of those baby-cops (PCSO?), who came up to us when we were students and literally said "oioioi, I hear you're smokin' a bit of the whacky tobaccy"... This was from a guy in his early twenties, around as old as me at that time... We thought it was funny, as we were just having a beer an' not smoking. He got annoyed at us, threatened to take our beers and tell people we were offering them to children, then asked us how many of us have been arrested!

    When I was moving house by bus in West London, a police man asked me if I needed help, I said no. I saw him on the beat twice and he tried to talk to me on the bus, I said again I was fine moving house by myself... Then, I got off the bus and he grabbed his mate and said they were going to get off at the same stop. His mate didn't know why... But he grabbed him, jumped off and they followed me, right down the road to a distance where they could see what house I live in... Then turned away... Weird!

    I think with anything that gives you authority, it attracts a lot of people who either have a chip on their shoulder, or who enjoy power.

    I believe the fact that there needs to be an appropriate adult present when a child, or vulnerable adult is in custody, says it all about some people in the force (the appropriate adult makes sure they have their rights and aren't intimidated and bullied)...

    However, like anything, you will get a few nice people in there too... I have met police who have been fairly ok with me. I'm also happy that as an activist, I so far haven't been tear-gassed or beaten like some of my comrades from other countries.

    I am also noticing more police in my area... I have to say, I have had a gang of lads try to intimidate me, my house mate has been followed home twice in the last few months and somebody tried to break in last week... So this is the first time I am happy to see them, lol!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think that people who don't like the current police force should be told to leave the country, when the better solution is to change the police.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I don't think that people who don't like the current police force should be told to leave the country, when the better solution is to change the police.
    Especially if said people are paying the police wages through taxes. :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'll trust the police like I trust anybody. On an individual basis. But I normally wouldn't trust the police because of the authority over the public and orders they are bound to adhere to by being in that role, and any other role similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I'll trust the police like I trust anybody. On an individual basis. But I normally wouldn't trust the police because of the authority over the public and orders they are bound to adhere to by being in that role, and any other role similar.

    I agree with your first assertion, but I take an opposite stance on your following assertion. I would trust them because of the power than I as a citizen have over the police. The police are bound by legal duty to serve the public and therefore they are several orders of magnitude more liable if they cause you harm or distress than your fellow citizens are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The police here it seems, are not held as accountable for many of their actions as the public are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    The police here it seems, are not held as accountable for many of their actions as the public are.

    Isn't this why the IPCC exists? so that you can complain about instances where you feel that this is the case?

    You can't complain about the system if your not prepared to engage in the system.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I don't think that people who don't like the current police force should be told to leave the country, when the better solution is to change the police.

    I'm merely pointing out that firstly,
    you've made a sweeping generalisation about 150,000 people based on a handful of incidents.
    And if you think we're bad then maybe you should see what policing is like in other countries.

    How would you have it? If we see someone comitting a crime we just stand idly by and let them, because God forbid we lay our hands on them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    The police here it seems, are not held as accountable for many of their actions as the public are.

    I disagree. My brother had an officer sacked and their sergeant demoted because she failed to investigate his accident properly and it almost ended up with him being taken to court.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't this why the IPCC exists? so that you can complain about instances where you feel that this is the case?

    You can't complain about the system if your not prepared to engage in the system.
    So Jean Menezes, Ian Tomlinson... If anybody here had killed a person, they wouldn't get away with it? Probably not...

    So no, when I see that, I don't feel the police do have a lot of the same rules as 'normal' people. However, I haven't needed to bring anything to court... Yet.

    If a police officer attacked me, I would no doubt take it to the papers and to the IPCC.
    And if you think we're bad then maybe you should see what policing is like in other countries.
    Isn't this a bit patronising? Just because the police are worse in some countries, does not mean that people in the UK haven't had bad experiences. These experiences aren't any less valid because hard they lived in Egypt, it could have been worse.
    How would you have it? If we see someone comitting a crime we just stand idly by and let them, because God forbid we lay our hands on them.
    Nobody is saying that though... People are discussing their experiences of the police, not whether or not people should be allowed to commit crimes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »

    Isn't this a bit patronising? Just because the police are worse in some countries, does not mean that people in the UK haven't had bad experiences. These experiences aren't any less valid because hard they lived in Egypt, it could have been worse.

    Why is it? The original question is asking that if because of a few bad experiences, or as in the first post because of something you've read in the paper should all police officers immediately be classed as either dangerous or un-trustworthy.

    I personally find it insulting that there is an insinuation, actually fuck it, a belief that I'm a violent, dangerous or untrustworthy person because of my chosen profession.
    Nobody is saying that though... People are discussing their experiences of the police, not whether or not people should be allowed to commit crimes.

    And they are also calling for a fundamental change in how the police is run which would include things such as how much force should be used when apprehending a criminal.
    Policing can be a dangerous business. Officers routinely engage with people others would cross the street to get away from. Sometimes it gets ugly, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a cop oversteps the mark, most times they don't.

    Even when a cop doesn't overstep the mark, as I said before the place is suddenly swarming with armchair cops who think they know better.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    or as in the first post because of something you've read in the paper should all police officers immediately be classed as either dangerous or un-trustworthy.

    I personally find it insulting that there is an insinuation, actually fuck it, a belief that I'm a violent, dangerous or untrustworthy person because of my chosen profession.
    But how many people are saying that? They are talking about their own experiences. Not everybody likes the police.

    I think it's patronising because it's the usual talking down to somebody who has had a shit time of something... "Awww don't worry love, at least you're not living in a refugee camp in Sudan" xx

    Well whatever the situation other people live in, they are still entitled to their beliefs and emotions regarding a situation. Each of us is different.

    I work in a profession which is disliked by a lot of people too and it never surprises me when people say they have had bad experiences. In fact, I was at drugs awareness training and it honestly felt like the trainer changed personality when he found out who we were from... Why? He had a bad time with a colleague in another office. But hey, that's life... People given power often abuse said power.
    Policing can be a dangerous business. Officers routinely engage with people others would cross the street to get away from. Sometimes it gets ugly, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a cop oversteps the mark, most times they don't.

    Even when a cop doesn't overstep the mark, as I said before the place is suddenly swarming with armchair cops who think they know better.
    Because people have had bad experiences from the police. You have to admit, some police do abuse their power (just like squaddies, jobcentre workers, council workers, security staff an' anyone else may) and people react from experience. Granted, it is fashionable in some circles to hate the police too... But police are supposed to protect and unfortunately, some people make the rest of ya look bad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    But how many people are saying that? They are talking about their own experiences. Not everybody likes the police.

    I think it's patronising because it's the usual talking down to somebody who has had a shit time of something... "Awww don't worry love, at least you're not living in a refugee camp in Sudan" xx

    Well whatever the situation other people live in, they are still entitled to their beliefs and emotions regarding a situation. Each of us is different.

    To me the general tone of the topic suggests that we're all the same. The question "Do the police make you feel safe, do you trust them?" suggests the implication that all police officers are the same, otherwise it would be "Most coppers are decent, some are arseholes, discuss" e.t.c.
    I work in a profession which is disliked by a lot of people too and it never surprises me when people say they have had bad experiences. In fact, I was at drugs awareness training and it honestly felt like the trainer changed personality when he found out who we were from... Why? He had a bad time with a colleague in another office. But hey, that's life... People given power often abuse said power.

    What do you do out of interest? From the training you've been on I'd hazard a guess social work of some description?

    Because people have had bad experiences from the police. You have to admit, some police do abuse their power (just like squaddies, jobcentre workers, council workers, security staff an' anyone else may) and people react from experience. Granted, it is fashionable in some circles to hate the police too... But police are supposed to protect and unfortunately, some people make the rest of ya look bad.

    I've not once intended to discount someone's own personal experience. I've met cops who are total douchebags, so believe me when I say I can understand what it must be like, it's bad enough being on the same side as them. They're lazy and impolite, and some are just utter gits. But they are a minority. For every unhelpful, arsehole cop there are 10 of us beavering away trying to make you less likely to become a victim of crime.

    As I said before, what annoys me is the universal, collective belief that no matter what we do or how we do it, we've cocked up somewhere.

    Take the recent murder/kidnapping. Criticism from the media that it took a length of time to actually check the inside of the van before finding the injured bloke. A suggestion that it is the police's fault that he died.
    Nothing mentioned about the murdering bastards who took him in the first place, or that we must find that many dead bodies in vans, searching them for a corpse should be a matter of routine.

    Now if things had been different, if they'd checked the van instead of trying to catch the kidnappers the headlines would have read "bungling officers allow 4 kidnappers to escape".

    We can't win.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with your first assertion, but I take an opposite stance on your following assertion. I would trust them because of the power than I as a citizen have over the police. The police are bound by legal duty to serve the public and therefore they are several orders of magnitude more liable if they cause you harm or distress than your fellow citizens are.
    The only reason why I wouldn't trust the police as a whole based on their roles and responsibility, is because if there is a law that is passed, and these officers are demanded to do it because of their role, then I wouldn't trust the police officers who wouldn't refuse in fear of losing their job. I know this isn't that likely, but its foreseeable in this current world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't really trust the police too much but i do trust them more than a regular citizen. If i was to put my life in either a police officers' hands or a citizens' i would choose police.

    This is a rare example of police behaving badly

    If i was a copper i would prob get a lil rough with some of them too, imagine how much they must temp u into hitting them sometimes....... they dont have an easy job, although i do think this policeman over stepped the mark
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course the police make me uncomfortable. I don't trust them and I don't think anyone should. History has shown how they have been used by Govts to enforce their will on the population.

    I'm also a little wary of anyone whom shows blind faith in them too.

    To suggest that this is a "rare" example of bad behaviour ignores every other thread on here where the police (or an individual) seems to have gotten away with a pretty serious crime.

    Having said that, I would worry about vigilantes even more.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    The only reason why I wouldn't trust the police as a whole based on their roles and responsibility, is because if there is a law that is passed, and these officers are demanded to do it because of their role, then I wouldn't trust the police officers who wouldn't refuse in fear of losing their job. I know this isn't that likely, but its foreseeable in this current world.

    Officers have a lot of discretion and that can't be taken away. There are a lot of things where we will come up with an alternative if we can, especially if you're young or never been in trouble before.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm meaning more indepth than just that. I see your example in having some cannabis on your possession, but being young and not being in trouble before you may get a warning - comparing it to someone who has had a previous record would likely be arrested - that I understand and I'm fine with that [for cannabis]. But I'm talking more of a suppression on society and freedom.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't this why the IPCC exists? so that you can complain about instances where you feel that this is the case?

    Tell that to Ian Tomlinson's family.

    Or the Police Action Law Group:
    On 11 January 2008, the Police Action Law Group (PALG), over 100 lawyers who specialize in police complaints, resigned from the IPCC's advisory body, citing a failure to provide adequate oversight; a pattern of favouritism towards the police, with complaints being turned down despite strong evidence; indifference and rudeness towards complainants; delays stretching over several years in some cases; and key decisions being made by managers with little or no legal training or relevant experience.

    I tend to trust individual police officers, although I certainly wouldn't trust the organisation as a whole if I had some sort of complaint about their behaviour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to say I'm not really surprised, there are loades of imcident with police officers these day's yet many people do remain trusting them, as they are also very important people, I am also not surprised he got away with it as he is part of the law. So yeah I still trust them, as they do wonders :)
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    A question:
    Suppose that you're the victim of a crime. If you wouldn't trust the police with it, what's the better alternative you'd choose? Let the criminals go free and unsought, or go after them yourselves? I don't see how either of these would be a better alternative than telling the police and risking that the officers handling your case would be jackasses.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From what I've read in the thread, it's not that we don't trust individual police officers, but we don't ideally trust the organization. Which is understandable. You're taught from childhood to not trust people (with the whole "it's a big dangerous world out there!"), but you still do once you go through your own life and meet certain people.

    If I didn't trust a certain officer [which I'm yet to] I would ask for my case to be handed to someone else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A question:
    Suppose that you're the victim of a crime. If you wouldn't trust the police with it, what's the better alternative you'd choose? Let the criminals go free and unsought, or go after them yourselves? I don't see how either of these would be a better alternative than telling the police and risking that the officers handling your case would be jackasses.
    I think it depends on the crime...

    Where I'm from, if one of our mates was beat up or robbed, we'd sort it out ourselves. However, I'm not from the city.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Where I'm from, if one of our mates was beat up or robbed, we'd sort it out ourselves.

    :yes: Same here. To be honest, I don't trust the police with major crimes either, because when I did report to them what's happened (and they had evidence too) they did nothing. x
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