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They would have not done the punishment as it is very haram and no muslim in saudi arabia or riyadh (both lovely places but very hot) Would go through with it. He may loose a arm a leg or two legs many muslims have lost a arm or a foot mainly poor beggers, the streets are filled with them and in bangladesh if this punishmemtt does take place the man who did it would get sent to prison for many months as this is very haram and Allah would not allow it and on the day of judgeement the man who ripped out the cord would burn in hell fire,well many muslims believe that x
So it's all even? We can't possibly pass judgement? We've no way of establishing what's odious and what's not?
I'm sorry, Whowhere, but this is superlative poppycock. What do you think agencies like the UN are all about? But forget even that, what about basic human solidarity? Or does your empathy only extend as far as our national borders? This reminds me of the same kind of dangerous nonsense I hear that goes 'well if we've got nuclear weapons, why can't Iran have them?". Jesus-fucking-wept.
I'm sure that when you're having your hands removed for a crime that you're innocent of, you just can't help but sing the McDonald's jungle.
No I haven't, surprisingly. But if he says "sodomised to death" am I to just think "these kooky Saudis and their wacky customs"?
Maybe they do. And maybe I couldn't give a shit.
Oh my god, CptCoathanger, I have never fancied you more.
Marry me
Indeed. Whether a certain group of people are interpreting a book correctly or not is completely irrelevant. The fact that they think it's the literal word of God is the dangerous bit. Once you tell someone that, you've only got yourself to blame if they start following it according to an interpretation you don't agree with.
And yeah, I agree with everything the good Captain just said. Who are we not to condemn human rights abuses, just because they happen outside our own borders?
So how far should we take it? Just words or actions too?
................even when the anti war activists start asking us why we are conducting an illegal war to rid a country of these ills.
Catch 22 indeed.
In principle, yes.
In practice, possibly, possibly not; it depends on whether the consequences of doing so would be worse than not acting. But in principle, yes, we always have a moral obligation to prevent human rights abuses.
With those few words you have just proven my point entirely. I expect the Saudi government and the population who support these laws are thinking exactly the same about us.
The idea that foreigners should be entitled to an opinion about the way we do things is instantly dismissed by yourself because you don't give a fuck. But it's ok for us to try and influence them?
:yes:
Article 2 of the UN charter effectively confirms Whowhere's superlative poppycock
You have to make a judgement. The Rwandan genocide? I think I'd be tempted to get involved. An individual man getting executed? I think military action might cause a bit more suffering than that. But in reality, we all know that if Saudi Arabia didn't have oil, they would be treated in exactly the same way as Burma or Zimbabwe by large parts of the world. We haven't invaded them, we've just refused to offer them any support. If we could convince certain other major political powers to do the same, the whole regime would quickly come crashing down. With certain other countries, we offer them incentives to change. Turkey, for example, have a huge incentive to improve their human rights record. The idea that you can either leave them to it or invade is a complete fallacy. The US and EU have propped up this regime for decades, and continue to do so.
Firstly, how about addressing my points?
Secondly, how does my giving or not giving a fuck affect the Saudi's entitlement to opinion? And you've just reiterated more of this dangerous mindset where you don't seem to think there are distinctions to be drawn between burying women up to their head in sand and stoning them to death, and justice that takes rehabilitation into account.
I'm not advocating saddling up and riding on into every country whose laws I disagree with, but watching genocides, barbaric punishments and the oppression of peoples play out with folded arms and a closed mouth ain't right.
@God of Schmuck: Why don't you go suck a fuck.
Is that an invitation to treat ? (At the same time as Jamelia ?:crazyeyes )
Questions, questions.
Perhaps you can not handle having your points addressed (despite your offer) ?
That's rich coming from you! You take a sentence out of my whole post and make some vague allusions not actually expressing an opinion of your own, as usual. I'll assume your non-reply, save you the hassle of writing it.
I also doubt that anyone asked if he wanted fries, or to super size it, but just because that isnt likely to have happened, doesnt mean you cant be a christian and work at mcdonalds.*
*Another perspective of flawed logic, I thought it would be nice for a change to stir things up.
What vague allusions ?
You bring the UN into your evidence,presumably as substantiation and I merely pointed out that the UN (in its legal charter) actually sides with the Whowhere point that you were trying to discredit.
My point about Jesus was to highlight the gulf between him and so called Christians.
Well dig it out then, big boy. And perhaps address the wider question, with some of your own opinions.
Indeed. I'd be all for working with the current regime to help achieve things like equal rights for women, for example. And there certainly appear to be people in the country who want that. It was the king who wanted to allow women to drive, for example, and public pressure that prevented it.
Probably. Although I imagine that translates into public pressure.
Through being taught what the imams think, not what the people do I presume.
Assertiveness or aggression ? (Do you like to wear uniforms ?
Post 42 already gave you the answer. Section 7 if you require further help.
What exactly is the wider question ?
For me, perhaps the widest question is what are human rights.
Many have given reference to "human rights" in this thread without defining it.
And before the assertive/agressive among us shout "we all know what human rights are", take note that the UN are vague in their literature despite them claiming universality.
Closer to home the Human Rights Act contains disclaimers that have manifested themselves in the courtroom.
It seems even the secular sovereigns have a problem with that wide question.
Option 3: Amused.
Only when your mother's choking me out.
Post 42 said precisely fuck all, as usual. Are you aware of UN peacekeeping forces and the different roles they undertake?
The wider question was about basic human solidarity. I've not talked about human rights, though I see you're already trying to muddy that pond in anticipation.
Honestly, trying get get specific, straight opinions out of you is like trying to bust-a-nut using a picture of Mother Teressa - fucking futile.
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a gypsy queen
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle all dressed in green
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle ’til the moon is blue
Wiggle ’til the moon sees you
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle in your boots and shoes
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, you got nothing to lose
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a swarm of bees
Wiggle on your hands and knees
Wiggle to the front, wiggle to the rear
Wiggle ’til you wiggle right out of here
Wiggle ’til it opens, wiggle ’til it shuts
Wiggle ’til it bites, wiggle ’til it cuts
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a rolling hoop
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a ton of lead
Wiggle—you can raise the dead
Wiggle ’til you’re high, wiggle ’til you’re higher
Wiggle ’til you vomit fire
Wiggle ’til it whispers, wiggle ’til it hums
Wiggle ’til it answers, wiggle ’til it comes
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like satin and silk
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a pail of milk
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, rattle and shake
Wiggle like a big fat snake
Say it quietly and no-one may notice what you are doing.
I didn't address your points because I didn't feel the need. You have made an assumption that I agree with the Saudi's treatment of criminals. I don't. My argument is that we have absolutely no right to intefere in the domestic policies of a sovereign nation.
They aren't murdering thousands of people and they aren't manufacturing weapons of mass destruction. The very fact that you think the mass-murder of tens of thousands of people is even the same sport, let alone the same league as chopping the dick off a rapist or cutting a thieve's hand off is laughable.
Your not giving a fuck doesn't affect the Saudi's entitlement to their own opinions, however you expect them to give a fuck about yours? As I said, for all we know the average Saudi on the street thinks we're a bunch of immoral bastards for letting rapists walk free from prison, the bloke who was paralysed is certainly quite happy to see his attacker have the same done to him, and everything suggests he is just an average bloke.