Questions about new work contracts - posting for Hellfire

Former Member

I have been asked to post these questions for my husband, Hellfire, as he is at work and can't get onto thesite...

1. Can your employers make you sign a new contract?

2. Can employers make you give 3 months notice to work within the 48 hour/week working time directive?

3. Can your employers make you seek permission from them to take part-time work/a second job outwith the company?

Thanks

Former Member

AFAIK they cant force you to sign a new contract. My dad has been in the same job for 32 years now, the number of times they have asked him to sign a contract is rediculous. The new lads at his place compared to my dad are screwed over etc.

I think my dads job is secure because it would cost too much to make him redundant.

Dont quote me on it though. Plus if he gets treated shit/differently because he refuses to sign, then im sure the employer can get royally screwed for that. As it would be forcing an employee to potentially worses their condition.

Former Member

Post the questions to askthesite with as much detail as you can for a relaiable answer. I would say:

1) No way, they can't MAKE him sign anything.
2) Sounds dubious, I would go with no.
3) Might depend on any existing contract.

good luck

Former Member

Lolzabeth wrote: »

I have been asked to post these questions for my husband, Hellfire, as he is at work and can't get onto thesite...

1. Can your employers make you sign a new contract?

2. Can employers make you give 3 months notice to work within the 48 hour/week working time directive?

3. Can your employers make you seek permission from them to take part-time work/a second job outwith the company?

Thanks

1. Depends on the existing contract. generally though they have to do a period of "consultation" with staff and unions lasting approx 3 months and then they can change terms.

2. Yes, as per above. Assuming it's to reduce to level under that limit rather than above.

3. Yes, a moonlighting clause. Stops you working for a competitor, for example.

Having said all that, check with legal advisors if possible.

Former Member

It's a tricky area this one but essentially they can vary the contract. Normally the changes are by agreement (see what MoK said about consultation), but if you don't agree then they can terminate your contract and re-hire you on the new one (though this may lead to an unfair dismissal case). You may find yourself constrained to agree.

Obviously the other parts of the question really follow on from point 1.

If you forsee issues, consider contacting your union rep or ACAS.

Former Member

Hi, sorry about this, I couldn't get on from work, I'll post the official changes they want to make.

Mist, We have no union and my employers do not officially recognise one for us.

the following are what I am concerned about and I'll fire a Email off to CAB asking for advice,

they said the new contract will be issued for September, we got informed about it on the 16th june so they're giving us 2 1/2 months warning

8.2 Confirms that you agree to opt out from Regulation 5 of the Working Time Regulations. The regulation limits the working week to 48 hours. Anyone who does not agree to the opt out from a maximum 48 hour week should inform the company in writing of this giving 3 months notice.

Basically signing the contract means I agree to opt out of it, then I have to give written notice with three months, so even if i state this when I sign the new contract they'll have three months of this,

Problem is I enjoy my job but I do not want to work all the time, 40hours per my standard job on reception with the extra hours in IT which is anywhere from 4-12hours a week, but I want it to be my choice, I do not want them to have control of how many hours to work. There are times I'll be happy to work more than 48hours a week but it'll be at my choosing.

I think that I'd receive problems if I contest this but I may ask to speak with someone.

Also, if by opting out of the Working time directive, does that affect my rest breaks? ie. I am entitled to 1day per seven or two days per fourteen off as a rest break (no work) does saying I agree to working more than 48hours affect this?

NEXT ONE,

9.2 If you are dismissed for misconduct and have holidays due to you, you will be paid a total of £10 to cover these outstanding holidays.

This one is interesting, although it'd probably not apply to me, can they actually do this. so say (theoretically) I got fired, even if I had a weeks worth of holiday owed to me they'll only pay me £10.00 in total for all of them!! Surely that's not right.

19 You must obtain written approval from [EMPLOYER] before taking on any secondary employment (for example, a part time job).

As most have said it is for competition etc, but I do not want them saying WHO I can and cannot blooming work for.

I'm very dubious about it all as basically we've all been told is the following

They've said that we have to make all comments in writing by July 15th, I think I'll write up a draft of my comments tonight to present my issues.

I think thats all for now, I'll post my draft letter asking for advice.

Former Member

First draft of my letter, all help appreciated.

Dear [GENERAL MANAGER],

I am writing as per the instructions regarding any comments or queries arising from the issuing of the new contracts. I have a few questions I would like clarification on.

Section 8.2 states by signing this new contract that I agree that [EMPLOYER] may rota be on shifts of longer than 48hours per week without my permission, It does state we can opt out of this giving three months notice. Can you confirm we can opt out of this at the time of signing the contract without the need of the three month notice period. As far as I am aware I have not currently opted out of the Working Time Regulations however by signing this new contract I do opt out, I feel this is slightly unfair as opting out of the Working Time Regulation must be voluntary, I would be more than happy to sign a contract with this excluded.

My reasons behind this are quite simple. Whilst in most circumstances am more than willing to work more than the required amount, overtime, extra days and shifts in other departments. Which can be seen from my previous record, I do wish to remain some type of control over the hours I work. Unfortunately staying within the Working Time Regulations is my only control I would have over how many hours I work. I am sure you appreciate I have to make sure it is in my best interest as well as [EMPLOYER]'s.

I am not saying I would never work more than 48hours a week and if asked to help out, in the majority of cases I will but if I do I would want it to be partly on my own terms and at my discretion and I would also wish to have the option, if required in the rarest of circumstances to turn the extra work down if I already had prior arrangements or plans.

I do not believe not opting out of the WTR would affect my working with the company on my part, The shifts I do currently very rarely go over 48hours a week and I am still more than willing to give [EMPLOYER] the current high level of service as an employee as I have given you over the past three years. I trust my opting to stay within the WTR would not jeopardise my current or any future positions at the company and please do not take this as my unwillingness to help or go the extra mile for [EMPLOYER].

I await your comments and any further discussions on the points I have raised.

Yours,

Graeme Nicholson

I believe I got all the ref to who I work for out, for obvious reason, I am re-reading the new contract to find any other problems, so I will not send any letter for some time.

Former Member

I only thing of yours I have issue with is the working for other firms etc, a hell of a lot of places, even nice ones like the MOD kinda have it etc.

As for the rest its a load of shit in my opinion.

In previous employments they have asked me if I wanted to opt out of the european working time directive, but it was a seperate form not integrated into the contract and we could also with draw approval at any point we wanted with suitable notice.

Former Member

G wrote: »

I only thing of yours I have issue with is the working for other firms etc, a hell of a lot of places, even nice ones like the MOD kinda have it etc.

As for the rest its a load of shit in my opinion.

In previous employments they have asked me if I wanted to opt out of the european working time directive, but it was a seperate form not integrated into the contract and we could also with draw approval at any point we wanted with suitable notice.

yeah the others I don't care to much about, the WTR is the biggy for me for reason's I've said,

I added this part as well

On a second issue on the section with regarding secondary employment if this was ever refused I trust [EMPLOYER] will provide a legitimate reasons for refusing so. Can you confirm this is mainly with relation to working with a competitor of [EMPLOYER]?

Former Member

The biggest issue I see with the thing is actually the 10 pounds holiday thing, but then that's if you're dismissed. So hopefully you have no plans of being dismissed and it wouldn't be an issue. Even then, I'm not entirely sure what your normal rights are in that situation, so 10 pounds might be a bonus.

The Working Time Directive I would not be massively concerned about. Opting out of WTD does not alter your working hours, or mean that the company can force you to work, it just means that if you work 60 hours one week, then the company isn't put in a compromised position legally. Quite a few contracts opt out of WTD to save on beurocracy.

Not taking on outside work without notification is another fairly common condition.

I think on the whole I would not be massively bothered by any of these changes.

The letter draft you've produced reads to me as pretty confrontational. I don't think I'd send it.

Former Member

Mist wrote: »

The biggest issue I see with the thing is actually the 10 pounds holiday thing, but then that's if you're dismissed. So hopefully you have no plans of being dismissed and it wouldn't be an issue. Even then, I'm not entirely sure what your normal rights are in that situation, so 10 pounds might be a bonus.

The Working Time Directive I would not be massively concerned about. Opting out of WTD does not alter your working hours, or mean that the company can force you to work, it just means that if you work 60 hours one week, then the company isn't put in a compromised position legally. Quite a few contracts opt out of WTD to save on beurocracy.

Not taking on outside work without notification is another fairly common condition.

I think on the whole I would not be massively bothered by any of these changes.

The letter draft you've produced reads to me as pretty confrontational. I don't think I'd send it.

But surely if I opt out of it they can rota me on for say a ridiculous week, aka 60 hours?

Former Member

Mist wrote: »

The biggest issue I see with the thing is actually the 10 pounds holiday thing, but then that's if you're dismissed. So hopefully you have no plans of being dismissed and it wouldn't be an issue. Even then, I'm not entirely sure what your normal rights are in that situation, so 10 pounds might be a bonus.

AFAIK all you are entitled to, when dismissed for gross misconduct, is pay for the days you've worked. That's actually a pretty good deal. Not that it makes up for being out of work tho, natch.

As for the "moonlighting clause", I've never worked anywhere that didn't have one. I'm shocked that they don't already included it TBH.

Former Member

Hellfire wrote: »

But surely if I opt out of it they can rota me on for say a ridiculous week, aka 60 hours?

Erm, well, they could rota you on for that now if they were going to be pissy like that, are you saying that you'd currently not do it quoting the WTD? Surely you'd just point out that your shifts come to more than your agreed number of hours?

Realistically I can't see this coming in to play in a normal situation. If you're having to use the directive to sort out your weekly hours, then there's something up with your working relationship.

Edit: What are your contracted hours? This is the important thing really.

Former Member

Mist wrote: »

Erm, well, they could rota you on for that now if they were going to be pissy like that, are you saying that you'd currently not do it quoting the WTD? Surely you'd just point out that your shifts come to more than your agreed number of hours?

Realistically I can't see this coming in to play in a normal situation. If you're having to use the directive to sort out your weekly hours, then there's something up with your working relationship.

Edit: What are your contracted hours? This is the important thing really.

contracted hours are "upto 40 hours per week but more if the business deems it necessary" per my current contract, I do not see a problem with it but obviously it's kinda giving some "power" away

Former Member

I think thats just to make legal what they are allready willing to do (as currently stated within contract).

Former Member

in my job there is a lot of overtime available (luckily!)

and we were asked to sign a form to opt out of the WTD so that there are no issues legally if i did over my contracted hours

we have people working at my place that do 60/70 hours per week sometimes from overtime