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Institutional academic elitism?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
And, if it is; what's wrong with that?
Read this
Academic elitism is a political scapegoat. Whenever something needs diverting, especially around slow news days in summer - the media and the government feel a need to beat upon the universities, the "elitist" attitudes of the gatekeepers, and so on.
The question is, what's wrong with it?
The elite of this country should be a meritocratically selected one. The best, wherever they come from, should be given the chance to study at the world's best universities. Let the former polytechnics revert to a new "politically correct" status, but not universities. Let us make universities, and degrees, an elitist experience. Let's not widen access to degrees; it only devalues those in existence.
For what, I ask you, is wrong with elitism? Why does it have negative connotations? For it just means the selection of the best. The top. The academically most gifted. Where are the negative aspects to that?
Read this
Academic elitism is a political scapegoat. Whenever something needs diverting, especially around slow news days in summer - the media and the government feel a need to beat upon the universities, the "elitist" attitudes of the gatekeepers, and so on.
The question is, what's wrong with it?
The elite of this country should be a meritocratically selected one. The best, wherever they come from, should be given the chance to study at the world's best universities. Let the former polytechnics revert to a new "politically correct" status, but not universities. Let us make universities, and degrees, an elitist experience. Let's not widen access to degrees; it only devalues those in existence.
For what, I ask you, is wrong with elitism? Why does it have negative connotations? For it just means the selection of the best. The top. The academically most gifted. Where are the negative aspects to that?
Post edited by JustV on
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What's the point in rewarding or recognising people who do fuck all?
And I also think that people, no matter how clever, or otherwise should be given the opportunity to go to University, just for the experience.
I understand the reason for going to uni is to get the degree, but it doesn't mean the degree will be the most important aspect of the university experience.
Other students on my course got higher grades at A level than they needed, barely passed their first year exams, handed essays in late, didn't do any extra work or reading, and didn't revise. Whats fair?
I know I am only generalising, but you can't say that just because someone doesn't make the grade at A Level that they're going to be crap at degree level, because it depends how much work you do.(for me it was because my teachers didn't think I needed to do much work and I listened to them, wish I hadn't, grrr!)
There are people in my college who've failed first year and I thought they were close to genius. It all depends how much work you do. That is just my opinion though.
Make your line, and stand by it. I speak as someone who did scrape to be where I am. But I've done okay by it.
University is about getting a degree. Anyone who says otherwise shouldn't be at university. If you go for social experience, then you're not deserving of a place. Simple. Go to College, a poly, whatever. But do not confuse that life experience with what should be a university degree. It demeans the value of the degree for those who are going there to work.
(Kathryn's right, about everything but her failing, but let's not worry about that...)
I'm going to take flak for this, I'm sure. Oh well.
*also stands up to be flamed*
Also, there are other factors: whether the people who are going to teach you like you, your passion for the subject, your work ethic... clever people with lots of As might not actually be the best people to choose. Certainly simple academic achievement to date is a big factor but it's not the only thing.
Everyone goes to university to get a degree, thats obvious, but that again doesn't mean its the most important aspect of university on a personal basis.
I stand by that, a degree isn't everything in life, its handy, but there are far more important things. If university wasn't such a laugh then it would lose its appeal dramatically. I speak from the angle of someone who does go to uni to get a degree and intend to do the neccessary work to achieve it, but the experience needn't stop there. That is the beauty of university, you go have a wonderful time etc etc and get a degree into the bargain.
Some things take the piss, courses which let people on with (eg) 8 UCAS poinnts are a joke. But there are very able people who do not necesarrily excel until they are doing something they enjoy.
Sorry for any mistakes, I've moved house and have AOL and a crap keybiard. Can opnly see half the screem.
Our education system still has a strong bias towards working class underachievement. Suggesting only the very best students should go to university does, for whatever reasons, mean the population of universities would be encouraged to consist of mostly middle and upper class students. To me elitism widens social divisions, and to encourage elitism is to fear not being at/near the top of the system.
There is overwhelming evidence that emotional intelligence can take a person much further in life than academic intelligence can. Therefore experiences count far more than qualifications do. Certainly when I meet a person I'm more interested in the life experiences they've had than the letters after their name. I intend to go to university and experience everything, and meet new people, and get a degree along the way. Life is what you make of it. And if you want it to be an empty bunch of letters after your name then I think you're the one who's made less of life.
Yeah, exactly right.
Stanadards will drop?!! How does that one work? Say the person should have done really well at their A Levels but fecked up on exam day, or had Edexcel as an exam board
Wait, so if you go to University, you shouldn't have a social life? Which university did you pick? Are you saying that you didn't take into consideration things such as nightlife and things? If you didn't then you're one of the few. Yeah, people are going for the degree first and foremost but the social experience is also very important.
And another thing, I'm going to Northumbria, even though I was conditionally accepted to do law at Leeds because the law course at Northumbria is better. Now, I am capable and probably will get the grades that Leeds offered me {AAB}, but wait, I'm choosing a former Polytchnic over a so called "traditional university". :eek: Shock Horror. Give poly's a fair go. they're not all hellholes and Northumbria for one does some very good courses.
And can i just say something else that I noticed. All those that are in favour of the elitist system are from London. Coincidence? Me thinks not.
He's not saying that at all. he's just saying that principally it should be a question of the degree. A social life naturally will follow whereever you go, though obviously if you're into clubbing then that'd be somethign to take into account.
I don't really think there's any point in everyone's judging other people's reasons for their choice of uni. It's an entirely personal thing and naturally for different people there'll be different priorities.
You're brave, by the way, to pick a former poly because of it's course, and I admire you for it. If more people did that rather than worrying about the impact of the name of their uni after they leave there'd be much less of a two-tier system.
Yes. That's the nature of an exam. FYI, I do always mess up exams, relative to my course work and performance.
Oh, and it might bring up "standards".
Not you shouldn't have a social life, but it shouldn't be a major consideration.
Jesus College, University of Oxford
No notice at all of social life.
If you say so. How much of your decision is based on social life and aspects of that?
Not true. I'm from Birmingham. Oops.
There were a number of reasons why I chose Northumbria over Leeds.
*The course is better, you come out after 4 years with the exempting degree from the soliciors LPC or barristers BAR Course.
* Locality, Newcastle is closer to my home than Leeds is and so it will be easier to getnhome, should I need to.
*There was a good feeling at Leeds, but Northumbria just felt right for me.
And yes, social aspects are imprtant to me. I'm sorry if you're angered by that, but to say I have done no work is ludicrous. The last two years have been the worst two years of my life study wise and I think that the A Levels are the hardest thing that a person will ever do as the step from GCSE to AS Level is still massive, although the new system has tried to address this, with relative failure.
Thank you and I agree..
Maybe, but I do think that this attitude tends to come more from the people in the south than that of people in the North. Perhaps because they have a higher standard of living or something.
Dude! :rolleyes:
That has nohing to do with it at all! Don't bring standards of living into it, you can have a high standard of living for half the cost up here!