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School trips to Church

2

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not going, so lets drop the thread. It's my choice not to go, I'm not going. I have nothing against learning, but being preached to is different. If I so much as mention my veganism at school I get slated, so I'm not going to sit and listen to someone preaching to me and not being allowed to raise my hand and object! To be frank, I don't think my R.E. teacher wants me to go anyway.
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    Pity your parents are pandering to your choice. Sometimes you just ought to do what you're told and maybe one day you'll realise the benefit from i.

    I'm told to stand up for what I believe in. I've always been told this by my farther, ever since I was born. My mother tells me the same thing, but she says if I get in trouble then I deal with it. Which is fair enough. Do you have a problem with their parenting? Because, if I recall correctly, you don't have any children yourself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Think what you like of me then... but if I was refusing to go to a Church because I was of a different faith, you wouldn't say it. So what's the difference? Beliefs are beliefs, why do I need to put the word "religion" round them for them to be respected?
    Xx

    If you were refusing to go on an educational visit because of your faith I'd make exactly the same comment. You can't possibly make an informed choice unless you take the opportunities to get informed and one of the things I feel very very strongly about in life is that people should be given the opportunities to make their own fully informed choices.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've been to Churches before, what more is there to be learnt that I can't learn at school?
    Just like I wouldn't go to a slaughter house, I wont go to a church.
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's up to your parents, they don't even have to send you to school if they don't want to. Who says the state should get to define what an 'education' is?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    You believe in refusing to acknowledge other people and the world around you? S'bit harsh....

    Unfortunately at some point in time you will have to get your head around the idea of doing things you don't want to. Sometimes because you just have to and sometimes because unbeknownst to you, you will actually benefit from it. Are you so intolerant you can't even put up with someone else's ideas for one day? None of this reflects on the strength of your 'belief' but your inability to respect others'.

    Eh? Why 'respect' bullshit? Tolerate it, maybe, but respect it? Hell no.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    You believe in refusing to acknowledge other people and the world around you? S'bit harsh....

    Unfortunately at some point in time you will have to get your head around the idea of doing things you don't want to. Sometimes because you just have to and sometimes because unbeknownst to you, you will actually benefit from it. Are you so intolerant you can't even put up with someone else's ideas for one day? None of this reflects on the strength of your 'belief' but your inability to respect others'.

    I do an hour of RE studies a week, it's not a compulsory subject after year 9... in fact, it doesn't even exist in my school after year 9! It becomes Philosophy and ethics. I'm more than happy to learn about people views, but having to sit and be told? That I don't agree with. I've been thanked by my peers in many an RE class for debating the truth behind what we learn! If we can't question the world as children, when can we?
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    at uni. If you can stick at education for long enough, when you get to uni you will be able to debate ideas. School really is about learning to sit still, do as you're told, and learn the things you are told to learn in the way you are told to do it. Stick it out for a few more years and then you'll get your chance to debate what you're learning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd more happily debate it now to be honest... that wont ever change. I don't like being told what to think... My history teacher always says he looks forward to my debates :p He believes in socialism, and I communism (if it could ever work) and we often get into that debate :lol: I've spent many a lunch break in his class room debating with him. Same goes for my old Science teacher, he's a vegan, and we often debate the fact he teaches science and is vegan.
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You've got your answer then, some teachers you can, and others... you just can't debate with (not in class time at least).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks, but you don't need to PM me to prove a point or whatever the hell it was to do. What I don't believe isn't the fact that she is a teacher but the fact that she is a teacher in a Catholic school and doesn't want you going on school trips to places of worship to *learn* about them, not to be converted.

    Just to add my tuppence worth. I am also Catholic and I actually sympathise with BA and her parents' attitude. R E in State education is something I fundamentally disagree with. It isn't that I am narrow-minded. Quite the contrary, in fact. I am fascinated by in other religions and cultures, but I don't think it is the responsibility of the State to teach them. In my view, it is meddling with people's belief systems. R E should be down to parental choice - as it is in many other countries.

    However, I acknowledge that mine will be a minority (and unpopular) view.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You Godless heathen are going to burn, make no mistake.

    Seriously though, I don't think you should be denying yourself any education, regardless of your beliefs. I have developed, in the past few years since I left higher education, a pure desire for learning that I wish I'd had when I was at school where I could have properly indulged it. Retrospect really is a wonderful thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    not to make this sound harsh or an attack on you b-a, because in general i think you seem like a lovely person, but it seems like this is just another way to be awkward at school, attention seeking, to stand out, to be the uncooperative student. from other stuff iv read on here id hate to teach you, you sound like a bit of a nightmare student :p:)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ps when i was at school we went on a school trip to a mosque as part of RE...i went, listened to what they had to say about it, sort of found it slightly interesting...came away...that was it. i wasnt preached to and they didnt try to convert me. its just a trip.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    to be awkward at school, attention seeking, to stand out, to be the uncooperative student.

    Okay what ever. I am not at a war camp run by Nazi's, I am not a number, I am individual in school and out. Don't like it, tough shit. I am who I am, and that I am proud of.
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For fuck sake, I really can't imagine you being a teacher. I'd hate you as my teacher you clearly don't respect other peoples views do you? I dread to think what you'd do if a child objected to going to a church in your class! Are we not allowed our own views? Or do we have to be told what to think by you?

    i am stunned that someone could write something as spiteful as this.

    littlemissy is an amazing teacher, and her class are lucky to be taught by her. you completely miss the point being made and i don't really think you want to see it.

    :(
  • **helen****helen** Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
    omg hi wrote: »
    you completely miss the point being made and i don't really think you want to see it.

    :(

    I'm inclined to agree.

    Whether Littlemissy is a good teacher, or whether B-A is a good student to be taught, or whether your Mum really does believe this trip is a bad idea - not necessary - it is just spite from all angles.

    My tuppence - reconsider - sounds like an interesting trip and yes you could take yourself off to church to hear someone's sermon, but by the sounds of it you probably never will, so why not grab this opportunity so you can be involved in the discussions post trip. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can stand out without having to disagree and be difficult about things all the time. I think it's good you're at least being given the opportunity to go on a trip - I had one trip all the way from year 7 to 13. I'm not religious or go to church but that's not to say you can't be open minded and at least listen to what people have to say. I think it's interesting hearing peoples beliefs, even if I don't always agree, in fact the crazier I think they are the more interesting they are. Plus its a day out of school, I don't see why its such a big deal tbh. I highly doubt you will be 'preached' on, and even if you are, sometimes its best to just nod smile politely and just say it's not for you - rather than kicking up a fuss. And at the end of the day, it's only senior school, which is pretty much just designed to give you an understanding of everything before you go to focus on more specific things for gcses and then maybe a levels. So until you're at the stage where you can start chosing what you learn, I'm afraid you just have to learn what you're being taught, doesn't mean you have to believe or feel pressured - and I hate to do the whole guilt trip thing but there really are thousands of kids all over the world who would give anything to go to school and be taught all the different things we're taught here. Make the most of it imo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Okay what ever. I am not at a war camp run by Nazi's, I am not a number, I am individual in school and out. Don't like it, tough shit. I am who I am, and that I am proud of.
    Xx

    Oh dear. You have invoked Godwin's Law, ergo I'm afraid you lose the argument.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't care what you all think of me tbh, I must be doing something right at school if I manage to achieve some of the best grades in the Key Stage... not just the year!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't care what you all think of me tbh, I must be doing something right at school if I manage to achieve some of the best grades in the Key Stage... not just the year!

    A good attitude to life is just as if not more important than good grades.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I really don't care what you all think of me tbh, I must be doing something right at school if I manage to achieve some of the best grades in the Key Stage... not just the year!

    You should be aiming to achieve to the best of your ability, not bench mark yourself against others.

    If I'd taken the doing well means doing better than the rest of my year approach is good enough I'd be no where near where I am now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps, but then, what is a 'good' attitude. I like disobedience and the strength of mind and character to challenge ideas and the status quo. There is a skill in balancing a defiant attitude with enough compliance to get what you want out of life, and 13 is a good age to practise this balance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I may be getting this all wrong but I'm not convinced BA is anywhere near mastering the compliance side of things, and I may be old fashioned but think you get further in life if you master co operating with the system before you try and buck it too much.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still have trouble with the compliance side ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest, I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of me. My point was, I can't be shit at school if I get high grades.. and we (by the school) are told if we are in the top 10%. Which I am. So, it's not me putting myself up against others I really don't care what other people get... It's the school telling me.
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Qualifications are not the same thing as an education.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I still have trouble with the compliance side ;)

    :heart::heart:

    B-A, you're just fine the way you are. Remember, well behaved women rarely make history.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest, I couldn't give a flying fuck what anyone thinks of me. My point was, I can't be shit at school if I get high grades.. and we (by the school) are told if we are in the top 10%. Which I am. So, it's not me putting myself up against others I really don't care what other people get... It's the school telling me.
    Xx

    You dont have to be mouthy and be a total bitch to be different, or to be good at things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi BA,

    Just wanted to add my opinion to this as I am actually an RE teacher, and a committed atheist. It is not uncommon for Christian RE teachers to take students to their own church, the reason for this is usually that it is a cheap trip, they know the speaker and know they are not going to prosleytise, and they know that they are welcome in the church and are not going to be stepping on anyone's toes.

    RE teachers these days are actually incredibly conscious of not forcing their views on their students, even if they hold strong views themselves, and it would be a nightmare for an RE teacher to take students on a trip where the speaker tries to convert - I work with staff who have experienced this and who now avoid taking students to certain places where they know the speakers there cannot talk about their beliefs without trying to force them on the students.

    I think it would actually be more useful - and have more of an impact - if you were to go on the trip and then raise a complaint if you genuinely feel that the speaker attempts to convert or force their beliefs on you. They way I see it, there are two options:

    1. This trip is a genuine educational visit to a place of worship, reinforcing your prior learning about Christian beliefs and practices and the role of the Church for Christians, or

    2. It is a poorly veiled attempt by your RE teacher to take you to his place of worship where he will put you in an uncomfortable and inappropriate position and have someone try and force their beliefs on you.

    Now, I personally believe 1. is most likely to be the case, but if it is 2. then this is something that is a problem and needs to be raised. If you don't go, then it is unlikely to be raised as an issue by other students, so it is better for you to go and see if this actually happens, and put in a complaint if it does, than not to go at all and miss out on the educational experience.

    Please never be under the impression that all RE teachers love religion, or want to encourage you to be religious or develop some spiritual belief, as this is simply not the case. From a personal perspective, my atheism has only grown and developed the more I have studied philosophy and religion, so it is certainly not the case that RE = personal religious development.

    Also, you will find that RE IS compulsory in schools up until the age of 18, unless your parents withdraw you. It is often labelled philosophy/ethics nowdays as RE is an increasingly less appealing label, probably because of all the preconceptions that accompany it as a subject.

    Ultimately it is for you and your parents to decide whether or not you go on the trip, but even if you are not religious it will always be useful for you to understand how religion impacts our history and politics in the UK.
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