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Second debate

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    For ANY crime? What if it's a ridiculous law? Murder, I think yes you should lose your vote, something like possession of drugs? No.

    And how would you decide what crimes should result in loss of votes or not? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't wash with me. If you are convicted of a crime and incarcerated, you should lose certain freedoms, one of which is to exercise your right to vote.

    Also, possession of drugs would mean a 99% chance of a non-custodial sentence anyway, so that's not a very good analogy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How can you decide then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Filmmaker Bill Maloney was thrown out of the Leader’s Debate Question Time Special Audience

    Angry documentary filmmaker Bill Maloney was thrown out of the Leader’s Debate Question Time Special Audience for speaking about Institutional child abuse, the restraining techniques used in YOIs and government paedophile rings.

    Just moments before Question Time went live David Dimbleby introduced the panel asking each of them what they would be doing the next day. Michael Gove (Shadow Secretary of State for Children Schools and Families) said it was his wife’s birthday and Dimbleby asked if he had bought her a present to which he replied, “I actually bought her four presents”. Asked what the presents were Gove replied “A linen suit, a designer hand bag and two other presents that I’m not prepared to divulge”. Maloney shouted “Did we pay for them Mr Gove?” which raised a laugh from the panel and audience. Dimbleby concluded with Nigel Farage MEP of UKIP who made a sanctimonious remark to which Maloney shouted, “I don’t know why you’re so flippant, you’re guilty of stealing expenses the same as all the rest”. Dimbleby shook his finger and shouted at Maloney “If you are going to behave like this when we go on air I will have to tell you to leave.”

    Maloney responded by shouting “If you want me to leave David tell me to leave. Don’t talk to me like I’m a piece of shit! You’ve got an angry electorate here and you select only five questions from 150? This is a biased audience which does not represent the lower classes.”

    “I'm a documentary filmmaker and I investigate Institutional child abuse; the restraining techniques that are killing lower working class kids in Young Offenders Institutions; and paedophile rings in government that are fucking our kids! You don’t like talking about the children do you David?”

    Security was then called. As he was led out Maloney turned to the panel shouting,

    “I’m here about the children, not about the economy. I've got more bollocks than all of you! Shame on you!" Maloney’s wife continued by shouting "Everyone in this audience should google Hollie Greig G.R.E.I.G and realise that the government does nothing!"

    The security guards didn't lay a finger on Maloney as he was led out by the Producer - in fact the security guards looked like they wanted to pat him on the back!

    Maloney submitted two questions to the show which were not selected, one on the issue of crime:
    # Considering the government has given £840 billion to bail out the banks, how much have they spent on getting 3.5 million children out of poverty? Give the £3.4 billion promised to get children out of poverty which ‘breeds’ crime.

    The second was on the issue of institutional child abuse:
    # Considering it cost Australian taxpayers 200 million dollars for the Popes visit there in 2008, how much is the government spending on the Pope’s visit to the UK? And should we allow the Pope, whose Vatican City has the lowest age of sexual consent in Europe of only 12 years, into the country at all?

    All Maloney wanted was his questions answered, as no politicians are willing to discuss these issues.


    http://mikephilbin.blogspot.com/2010/04/bill-maloney-kicked-out-of-question.html
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man has massive strop because his questions weren't selected on QT?

    I don't doubt that they are important questions but the man needs to lose the chip from his shoulder.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sky News, impartial as ever.

    skyh.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sky News, impartial as ever.

    skyh.jpg
    Are you referring to the incorrectly-sized bars? Or the fact none of the numbers match up?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Or the source? Or David's the only one smiling?

    So many things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Looks like a normal cock-up and they've accidently got the Conservative and Lib Dem figures the wrong way round. A quick look at UK polling can't find the figures they're referring to

    You Gov just after the poll had Cameron 36%, Clegg 32% and Brown 29%.
    The daily poll on Friday had Con 34%, Lab 29% and Lib Dem 29% and the one today had Con 35%, lab 27% and Lib Dem 28%.

    It's probably also worth noting that You Gov is extremely well regarded as a polling organisation and wouldn't allow deliberate misrepresentation of their figures. It's also run by Peter Kellner. Given that he's married to Catherine Ashton (yes the Labour Peer who's the EU Foreign Rep) and himself previously stood as a Liberal Candidate, so it's probably not some conservative supporting right wing fascist organisation
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With a bit more digging it looks like the 20th April poll which had Labour 26, Tory 31 and Lib Dems 34.
    However I'm still going for cock-up, rather than conspiracy
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Daily Mail Poll Change - Cock Up or Conspiracy?

    The Sun, missing poll results - Cock Up or Conspiracy?

    Channel 4 - Fact Check... Lies, Misreported "facts"... all party bullshitters
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's also run by Peter Kellner. Given that he's married to Catherine Ashton (yes the Labour Peer who's the EU Foreign Rep) and himself previously stood as a Liberal Candidate, so it's probably not some conservative supporting right wing fascist organisation

    I may be wrong but I think that the CEO is Stephan Shakespeare, who also owns ConservativeHome. Not that it makes a difference to you point other than to highlight the fact that it's pretty damned independant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    Daily Mail Poll Change - Cock Up or Conspiracy?

    The Sun, missing poll results - Cock Up or Conspiracy?

    Channel 4 - Fact Check... Lies, Misreported "facts"... all party bullshitters

    Well your third one's probably correct

    On the Sun missing poll reports, the Independents hardly an impartial observer. However I wouldn't find it odd that the Sun only publishes the top level reports ie how much share of the vote each party has. It only has so much space so wouldn't neccessarily delve deeper to show what people thought of the various coalition parties. It's also true that the Sun is right-leaning, unlike Sky it doesn't have to hold to broadcast regulations.

    The second one looks damning at first, but I wouldn't rule out a technical glitch (and any blog which refers to Sky as dishonest shitbags, the US as murderers (and quite frankly his inaccuracy on that one is appalling) and then complains about Tory leaflets is hardly a disinterested observer) No other poll has put Clegg at anywhere near that level for the second poll, so I'm going to go for cock-up.

    Now i'm not denying that the Mail is right wing as is the Sun. But all the moaners never point out the bias of the Mirror or the Guardian. The chief correspondent of Sky, Adam Boulton is also married to Anji Hunter, who was a political advisor for Tony Blair, so you may be looking at the wrong side for political bias.

    Thought to some extent that level of bias doesn't matter. People know newspapers are biased and most people factor that in. There is bias, when was the last time you saw a comedy attack Labour from the right wing and how many drama's just accept a left wing view. That's a more insidious bias, because people do not factor it out. Frankly we need all the media to be wandering round in vote Cameron T-shirts and chanting death to Brown to in any way balance that.

    As an aside in the Indy article it's interesting that in all the claims/truth the claims generally turn out to be true and its the Indie that then spins them a different way
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    I may be wrong but I think that the CEO is Stephan Shakespeare, who also owns ConservativeHome. Not that it makes a difference to you point other than to highlight the fact that it's pretty damned independant.

    I think Kelner is the president, I read that as the equivalent of Chair or CEO. Like many polling organisations it probably has a mix of people involved in different political parties.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never had any time for Sky News for various reasons (mainly that it is utter shite) but for what's worth I haven't noticed it have any obvious bias towards any party or politician. Which is remarkable, considering who owns it...

    But make no mistake, if Murdoch thought he'd get away with it, he would have introduced Fox-style 'fair and balanced' journalism to Sky a long time ago.

    Luckily the British public wouldn't put up with gems like this:




    obiden.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The second one looks damning at first, but I wouldn't rule out a technical glitch (and any blog which refers to Sky as dishonest shitbags, the US as murderers (and quite frankly his inaccuracy on that one is appalling) and then complains about Tory leaflets is hardly a disinterested observer) No other poll has put Clegg at anywhere near that level for the second poll, so I'm going to go for cock-up.

    Yeah the source isn't the best, I know that. It was the first I found when I googled the issue. Both polls are still on the Daily Mail website, although both have now been abused so much to be meaningless.

    Question is, why offer two polls?
    People know newspapers are biased and most people factor that in.

    Yeah and I can live with bias. All's fair in love and war.

    That acceptance goes out of the window though when I read manipulation of public opinion because it doesn't fit. I don;t mean selective quotes. I mean putting up an poll and changing it when it doesn;t fit with the bias, or just not reporting part of the poll...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I've never had any time for Sky News for various reasons (mainly that it is utter shite) but for what's worth I haven't noticed it have any obvious bias towards any party or politician. Which is remarkable, considering who owns it...

    There were questions asked after the first debate when Sky were the only news agency whose "poll" decalred Cameron win...

    And the Guardian report that ofcom have recieved complaints over Boulton raising the Clegg "stories" during the last election. It's arguable that the huge number of Clegg related stories in the Tory supporting press (and therefore extended to the Tory supporting Murdoch's media outlets) were because he was the real threat to Cameron, not Brown.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jan Moir strikes again? In an article entitled "War of the wives: Guess who wears the trousers in Casa Clegg!" she writes this little snippet:

    "Miriam is also in an arm sling, although these two incidents are apparently not connected. The wife of the Lib Dem leader claims that she simply broke her elbow when nipping out to buy groceries at the weekend. As you do.

    Yet pro-wrestling observers suggest that Mrs Clegg's injury looks far more like it was sustained during the execution of a classic elbow smash; seemingly a routine response in the Clegg household when Nick doesn't empty the dishwasher quickly enough."


    An attempt at humour? Or thinly disguised comment on domestic violence? Or is she just tryng to be as offensive as possible?

    Look at the article. I thought Carole Malone in the News of the World was a Class A bitch but she's minor leagues compared to Ms Moir.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    There were questions asked after the first debate when Sky were the only news agency whose "poll" decalred Cameron win...

    And the Guardian report that ofcom have recieved complaints over Boulton raising the Clegg "stories" during the last election. It's arguable that the huge number of Clegg related stories in the Tory supporting press (and therefore extended to the Tory supporting Murdoch's media outlets) were because he was the real threat to Cameron, not Brown.

    Now that doesn't make sense... Murdoch's in the business to make money, so how would promoting a story in the Times more succesful rival help him (unless, and we're entering so nutty conspiracy theory I'm surprised Cladestine hasn't returned to suggest it, Murdoch realised the story was so weak that it would be embarrassing for the Tele for it ever to be mentioned again). I suppose Adam may have been leaned on by his wife to do a bit for Labour.

    A more likely explanation is that a man used to challenging politicians momentarily forgot himself and made a cock-up
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One for the conspiracy theorists, this... Gordon Brown has just fucked up after being caught calling an old woman who'd confronted him 'bigoted'

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Apologises-For-Calling-A-Woman-Gillian-Duffy-Bigoted-In-Rochdale/Article/201004415621596?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15621596_Gordon_Brown_Apologises_For_Calling_A_Woman_Gillian_Duffy_Bigoted_In_Rochdale


    What's the betting Sky left the mike running on purpuse? I wouldn't put it past the cunts to be honest... :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lol, brilliant. I loved her question though. "All of these Eastern Europeans coming over here......where are they coming from?" :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've just watched the interview with her and I'm not really sure how he's come to the conclusion she's a bigot. She's not particularly eloquent and is a bit obstreperous, but that's about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've just watched the interview with her and I'm not really sure how he's come to the conclusion she's a bigot. She's not particularly eloquent and is a bit obstreperous, but that's about it.

    He probably doesn't really think it and didn't really mean it. He's probably stressed, exhausted, felt the conversation had gone badly and was venting, and unfortunately for him, his microphone wasn't switched off. Who hasn't said things they don't mean when tired and under pressure?

    It's like an episode of The Thick of It. I kept expecting her to ask him if he's ever had to clean up his own mother's piss.

    I feel for him. Poor bastard can't catch a break.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    He probably doesn't really think it and didn't really mean it. He's probably stressed, exhausted, felt the conversation had gone badly and was venting, and unfortunately for him, his microphone wasn't switched off.

    I'm no fan of Brown but I'd go with this too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I like this "He's an educated person, why is he coming up with words like that?" it's not like 'bigot' is a swear word.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    One for the conspiracy theorists, this... Gordon Brown has just fucked up after being caught calling an old woman who'd confronted him 'bigoted'

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Apologises-For-Calling-A-Woman-Gillian-Duffy-Bigoted-In-Rochdale/Article/201004415621596?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15621596_Gordon_Brown_Apologises_For_Calling_A_Woman_Gillian_Duffy_Bigoted_In_Rochdale


    What's the betting Sky left the mike running on purpuse? I wouldn't put it past the cunts to be honest... :D

    The BBC did it to both John Major (calling his three cabinet members 'bastards') and Jeremy Paxman (regarding Cameron) so I think it's just one of those things and was nothing sinister.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nice to see the election being diverted by a tiny, barely significant, comment instead of critical analysis of party policies.

    It's not like anyone other than about 150,000 people can vote for/against Gordon Brown anyway. It's moments like this that I'm glad of living with a monarchy rather than presidential system...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest he came over well with dealing with her, but then looses it in the car.

    It's not the bigot comment I object to, but the blaming of his staff...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    He probably doesn't really think it and didn't really mean it. He's probably stressed, exhausted, felt the conversation had gone badly and was venting, and unfortunately for him, his microphone wasn't switched off.

    Perhaps. I'm not making a big deal out of it, it's just a strange thing to call her. Dismissing her as bigoted seems like a lazy way of dealing with what she was saying.
    It's like an episode of The Thick of It. I kept expecting her to ask him if he's ever had to clean up his own mother's piss.

    Good episode. Made me genui-lol when she's given Ollie's phone number and he picks up the phone to her out of the blue.
    Poor bastard can't catch a break.

    Agree. Not sure whether I feel for him, though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's just ironic that one of the architects of our big brother state should be taken down because his private conversation was recorded.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't like the way the Beeb said he "just costed himself the election". How? I'm sure we would have thought something along those lines in his stressed state. Jeez, he's a human being like the rest of us. I'd prefer a politician to call me a bigot than keep a straight face all of the time. At least you know he's still thinking.
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