Second debate

Former Member

Is anyone watching it?

What do you think?

Former Member

I can't afford sky so I'm assuming they don't care what I think

Former Member

katralla wrote: »

I can't afford sky so I'm assuming they don't care what I think

It's on BBC News as well (available on freeview if you have that)

Former Member

Clegg (just),
Brown,
Cameron...

Think Dave has fucked it up again

Former Member

Nope, no Freeview...

Former Member

You didn't miss much

Former Member

MoK wrote: »

Clegg (just),
Brown,
Cameron...

Think Dave has fucked it up again

I missed it, but someone posted a poll on another website that said Clegg 33%, Brown 30% and Cameron 30%, which was the poll of undecided voters like last week. Wasn't this supposed to be the Tories' strong subjects?

Former Member

Cameron got a nice couple of jabs in and did best overall*. Clegg wasn't bad, but he had after last time he had a lot to live up to and didn't really manage it - he also sounded a bit thick in not understanding the Tory policy on immigration would be flexible on numbers. Brown didn't do badly, he smiled several times and as the weakest at snappy lines and being expected to do badly in debates it was a creditible performance, though he relies too much on statistics






* Clegg being sanctimonious about expenses and mentions the other two parties had been house flipping and hinting Lib Dems were purer and Cameron slaps him down nicely by saying none of the parties came out well.

He also got a nice jab at Brown over free prescriptions (ie the Tories going to keep them) and Brown's reduced to flailing around helplessly with the best he can manage is why didn't they put that in the Manifesto.

Former Member

I'm With Stupid wrote: »

Wasn't this supposed to be the Tories' strong subjects?

You'd expect the Lib Dems to pick up some people as they have three positions where there policies are different from Labour and Tories on Tident, strong support for Europe and Iraq. The Tory position on Trident is exactly the same as Labour, they have a similar (but not exactly the same) position on Iraq and indeed mainly voted with the Government and on Europe, whilst they're more eurosceptic than Labour its not so massive a gap as Lib Dems are from Labour.

Overall I would guess most voters take the Lib Dem position on Iraq (very strong), I would guess 50:50 on Trident (and I hasten to say I haven't see any polling on this for quite a while so could be wrong) and off the 50% supporting Trident as many would plump for Labour as the Tories.

On Europe I'd say about 70% of people could be classified as eurosceptic, but around half of them are probably not as eurosceptic as the Tories so in parties representing people's position on Europe I'd guess around 35% Tory, 35% Labour and 30% Lib Dem.

It should also be mentioned, foreign policy seldom wins elections...

Former Member

Did they do immigration tonight?

Former Member

For me, as an undecided voter :

Clegg (just ahead of Cameron)
Cameron
Brown (just behind Cameron)

I thought Cameron and Brown both performed better this time but I just somehow get the feeling that Brown was just a little bit on the sideline.

Former Member

Ten million people watched the first one last week.
Four million people watched the second one last night.
The great British public have gone back to their game shows and soaps.

Former Member

Partially that, and partially (I suspect) the fact that many of us can't stomach watching any of the Murdoch channels and/or don't have access to them.

Former Member

People who don't have Sky can still pick up Sky News on Virgin or Freeview (I think). Perhaps fewer people watched because the first debate was enough to convince them that Clegg was the man they wanted to vote for?

Former Member

No access. I think it was repeated later on tererstrial but, by that time I was v.tired and not about to stay up and concentrate on what three white men with ties were saying.

Former Member

katralla wrote: »

I was v.tired and not about to stay up and concentrate on what three white men with ties were saying.

Just in case you were wondering what colour ties they were wearing

Former Member

Teagan wrote: »

Just in case you were wondering what colour ties they were wearing

Cameron's looks more purple than blue.

Former Member

I find politicians quite alienating and think I'd rather read the policies. It's not that I'd like them to be a bit more 'down', rather that I'd prefer a few more 'down' politicians.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote: »

Ten million people watched the first one last week.
Four million people watched the second one last night.
The great British public have gone back to their game shows and soaps.

Or, it was a reflection of the fact this one was on Sky

Former Member

Randomgirl wrote: »

Cameron's looks more purple than blue.

It was purple

Former Member

MoK wrote: »

Or, it was a reflection of the fact this one was on Sky

It was also foreign policy (at least for the first half) which is never a great crowd-puller. I expect the next one, on the economy, will draw in greater viewing figures.

Also the first one was a novelty...

Former Member

Flashman's Ghost wrote: »

It was also foreign policy (at least for the first half) which is never a great crowd-puller. I expect the next one, on the economy, will draw in greater viewing figures.

Also the first one was a novelty...

It was foreign policy? Could have fooled me judging by the questions

EU
Afghanistan
Climate Change
Pope's Visit
Faith in politics
Pensions
Hung Parliament
Immigration

Former Member

MoK wrote: »

It was foreign policy? Could have fooled me judging by the questions

EU
Afghanistan
Climate Change
Pope's Visit
Faith in politics
Pensions
Hung Parliament
Immigration

It was sold as the foreign policy debate - which was what the first half exlusively was

Former Member

I reckon next week's one on BBC will pull in loads of viewers. Here's hoping Clegg or a member of the public will grill Cameron about his Murdoch-instigated plans to all but destroy the Beeb.

Former Member

I thought this debate was more scrappy than the first one. Cameron tried hard to come across as the progressive option, by emulating Clegg from the first debate. Brown also cracked a well-rehearsed, cringe-inducing joke about the other two acting like his sons squabbling at bath time. It seemed Cameron and Brown were attempting to distance themselves from the other parties, but neither achieved this particularly well. There was also talk of fear-mongering between Cameron and Brown, which I felt was completely hypocritical since both parties have used this tactic in their campaigning. Overall I think Clegg came off on top, purely based on his preceived sincerity compared to Cameron and Brown.

By the way, you can stream free-to-air channels on tvcatchup.com.

Former Member

wooooooooah wrote: »

Overall I think Clegg came off on top, purely based on his preceived sincerity compared to Cameron and Brown

The danger, of course, is that people may vote for personality rather than the content of their manifestos. There are a number of proposals in the Lib Dem that I can't quite bring myself to easily accept, like giving prisoners the vote. I know it's an EU directive but it seems crazy to me. It may not stop me from voting Lib Dem but seeing as giving prisoners the vote would not be very high on peoples' lists of importance, why not introduce it later AFTER having a referendum on it? The Lib Dems are all for referendums so why not this?

Former Member

Teagan wrote: »

The danger, of course, is that people may vote for personality rather than the content of their manifestos. There are a number of proposals in the Lib Dem that I can't quite bring myself to easily accept, like giving prisoners the vote. I know it's an EU directive but it seems crazy to me. It may not stop me from voting Lib Dem but seeing as giving prisoners the vote would not be very high on peoples' lists of importance, why not introduce it later AFTER having a referendum on it? The Lib Dems are all for referendums so why not this?

EU Directives mean squat without domestic legislation to enact them. I think if people have forfeited their right to freedom by committing and being convicted of a crime, I feel that they should also lost their democratic voice. Prison is meant to be punishment.

I guess they're not for a referendum on this while being for referenda on other topics for the same reason that Blair never held referenda on half of the things that he did - he would lose. Same for old two-faced Cleggy.

Former Member

Did you know that you lose your vote if you are currently being held under the Mental Health Act? I think this is really bad.

Former Member

wooooooooah wrote: »

By the way, you can stream free-to-air channels on tvcatchup.com.

It's still a money thing really. If you can't afford Sky, Freeview or Virgin, it's also likely that your computer and connection can't cope with streaming off a site like this.

Former Member

TVCatchup uses less than a few MBs a day from streaming, they're small streams.

EU Directives mean squat without domestic legislation to enact them. I think if people have forfeited their right to freedom by committing and being convicted of a crime, I feel that they should also lost their democratic voice. Prison is meant to be punishment.

For ANY crime? What if it's a ridiculous law? Murder, I think yes you should lose your vote, something like possession of drugs? No.

Former Member

That's nice. Still doesn't work.