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Brown's attempt to help stranded passengers

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Following on from the airlines' call for compensation, what does everyone think about Brown's response to the crisis?

Ignoring the pathetic level of response in relation to the number of people affected, do you actually think that it is the responsibility of politicians to mobilise the navy, order fleets of coaches, etc. to repatriate holidaymakers?

Do you think help would have been offered at all, if there wasn't an election coming up?

Would money have been better spent providing immediate financial help through the embassies, for the cost of additional accommodation/food for the stranded passengers?

For what it is worth, and I suspect I am in the minority, I don't think this has been handled at all well. Much as I sympathise with those stranded, I don't think the situation equates with, say, the need to repatriate nationals directly affected by volcanic eruption, earthquake or flood while abroad. While not being able to get home after a holiday is extremely inconvenient, the individuals are in no personal danger. No employer or school can possibly hold them responsible for being late home. My view is that the embassies could have done more to support people in the destination country until the planes started flying again. This isn't exactly Dunkirk, after all.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wouldn't go as far to call this a crisis.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I wouldn't go as far to call this a crisis.

    Well, quite. But I'm not sure that the thousands of holidaymakers now stranded in Madrid with promises of fleets of coaches, etc., would agree.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No employer or school can possibly hold them responsible for being late home.

    Try telling that to the County Council in Devon. I don't think they will eventually decide to dock teachers pay because there would be an outtrage but to even consider doing it ... ? :banghead:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/8631479.stm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If I'm not able to work because I'm sick I don't get paid, even though it's no one's fault. why should someone who is unable to work because of a volcano get paid?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, quite. But I'm not sure that the thousands of holidaymakers now stranded in Madrid with promises of fleets of coaches, etc., would agree.
    Such as natural disasters. At least they aren't dead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    If I'm not able to work because I'm sick I don't get paid, even though it's no one's fault. why should someone who is unable to work because of a volcano get paid?

    I wasn't suggesting that employers should have to pay absent employees any more than they might normally do. The point I was trying to make (badly, it seems) was that people shouldn't feel they will be unfairly penalised by employers or schools.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    Such as natural disasters. At least they aren't dead.

    That was my point exactly. There is a huge difference between repatriating people who are in physical danger, e.g. through natural disaster, war, etc. (genuine "crises") and the situation here. In my view the government's response has been inappropriate and ineffective.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Getting people home who have been left stranded due to natural events is no business whatsoever of the Government. They should have stayed out of this. No wonder the Government gets away with taking more and more control over our lives.

    Would the monocular Scottish one have laid on this help if there wasn't an election coming up? Dunno - it depends on what Mandelson and Whelan told him when he asked whether these people were Labour voters or not.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    While I think it is appropriate to send HMS Albion to Spain to pick up troops returning from Afghanistan, I don't think its appropriate to spend taxpayers money sending warships to pick up holidaymakers. This is taking business away from the ferry companies and shouldn't be allowed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On the other hand it is a good exercise for the navy, and the unplanned leave damages the economy.

    I'm sure people's banks and credit cards are better placed to help people out in the short term, with consuls providing the usual back up service.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I think governments are there to serve the people, and that any government should be as helpful as possible (within reason) towards any of its citizens in difficulties abroad.

    Brown fucked up a bit with promises of massive fleets of buses that were not there, though to be honest in the grand scheme of things, that wasn't the biggest of the standed travellers' problems.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Getting people home who have been left stranded due to natural events is no business whatsoever of the Government.


    Bollocks, if the Government sat back and did nothing you'd be on here moaning that the Government aren't helping the people who pay their wages.. utter bullshit.

    Although it wasn't a brilliant idea/though up strategy the fact the Government was willing to help, I applaud them for at least looking into it and organising help. I would rather live in a country were if I was stranded my Government helped or tried to help than be told to "not our problem"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    Bollocks, if the Government sat back and did nothing you'd be on here moaning that the Government aren't helping the people who pay their wages.. utter bullshit.
    How's your recovery after being run over by that bus, Hellfire?

    In case you haven't noticed, I'm a libertarian. That means I think the government should be smaller and do a lot less. You and I do indeed pay their wages, but that doesn't mean I want a government official to come round to my house and wipe my arse for me, does it? Similarly, I see no reason why government needs to help people to get home simply because their plane was cancelled.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    If I'm not able to work because I'm sick I don't get paid, even though it's no one's fault. why should someone who is unable to work because of a volcano get paid?

    Are you self-employed? Why don't you get statutory sick pay?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    How's your recovery after being run over by that bus, Hellfire?

    In case you haven't noticed, I'm a libertarian. That means I think the government should be smaller and do a lot less. You and I do indeed pay their wages, but that doesn't mean I want a government official to come round to my house and wipe my arse for me, does it? Similarly, I see no reason why government needs to help people to get home simply because their plane was cancelled.

    Oh get the fuck over yourself. there is a difference between having a flight cancelled and the whole airspace and EVERY flight cancelled,

    if your normal flight was cancelled airlines will put you up, per T&C, this time round most airlines have told people to fuck off and sort it out yourself.

    with insurance companies refusing to help, Airlines refusing to help, the people stranded needed help, the Government were one of the only groups who said "We're HELP YOU"

    Well lets hope you go and get yourself stuck somewhere, let the Government leave you there with no money or accommodation, let the embassy tell you to fuck off, :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Are you self-employed? Why don't you get statutory sick pay?

    Well you only get it after 3days and it is a pittance really isn't it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    ...the Government were one of the only groups who said "[We'll] HELP YOU". Well lets hope you go and get yourself stuck somewhere, let the Government leave you there with no money or accommodation, let the embassy tell you to fuck off.
    Aww, did I hit a raw nerve there?

    I don't know about you, but I'd be despairing if I heard that the government wanted to help me get home from somewhere. Much as I disagree with some of his politics, Ronald Reagan was right when he said the most terrifying words in the English language were "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help".

    Now then, the airlines have a legal duty to help out passengers in the event of flights being cancelled, including in unusual situations such as this one. From all accounts, the help has been found wanting. So will we see legal action being taken against the airlines because of their failure to comply with the law? Don't hold your breath. Infact, the brass-necked overpaid cunt that is Willie Walsh has already asked that BA be compensated because of all the cancelled flights.

    Aim your fire towards the people who really failed in their duty here, Hellfire.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's the governments duty to help brits in trouble abroad.
    There are an estimeted 150,000 stranded ...with kids old people etc.
    Many of these people have budgeted finely and are skint after their little spring break ...they have no means to get home but some of you don't give a fuck from your comfy little worlds.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Star, normally Airlines will be legally required to help passengers, but the only way they can help is accomodation in a hotel over night to get a joined flight within the next 24 hours. But since they're out the country, what are they going to do? They can't give people flights because they've been grounded. It is also the airports duty to give shuttle buses to hotels, but again, they're out the country. It isn't the airlines duty since they're stranded and pretty much stuck in the lurch like the customers, so the airlines will see it as not their problem. The government isn't exactly doing anything wrong here, you're just being a bit too cynical - and personal towards Hellfire...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's the governments duty to help brits in trouble abroad.
    There are an estimeted 150,000 stranded ...with kids old people etc.
    Many of these people have budgeted finely and are skint after their little spring break ...they have no means to get home but some of you don't give a fuck from your comfy little worlds.

    Couldn't Agree with you more, if over 150000 stranded Brits is not the governments problem, then what is?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    Star, normally Airlines will be legally required to help passengers, but the only way they can help is accomodation in a hotel over night to get a joined flight within the next 24 hours. But since they're out the country, what are they going to do? They can't give people flights because they've been grounded. It is also the airports duty to give shuttle buses to hotels, but again, they're out the country. It isn't the airlines duty since they're stranded and pretty much stuck in the lurch like the customers, so the airlines will see it as not their problem.
    The airlines may indeed see it something that isn't their problem. Unfortunately for them, it is their problem as they have legal obligations in this area. I was under the impression that EU law applied to all EU countries? Although what happens to those who aren't in EU countries, I'm not so sure.

    Oh yes, and before I forget, has anyone seen this?

    "The Civil Aviation Authority has told Channel 4 News the grounding of aircraft caused by the ash cloud may not have been necessary if rigorous engine testing had been done previously. Last Thursday the decision was taken to stop all aircraft from taking off or landing in British airspace. But as the ban on flights was extended, flight operators and travellers increasingly questioned the science behind shutdown."

    So this whole carry-on might not even have been necessary in the first place. Well, well, well...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »

    In case you haven't noticed, I'm a libertarian. That means I think the government should be smaller and do a lot less. .

    No, a libertarian believes government shouldn't be restrictive, it's your right wing tendency that wants a smaller less helpful government.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    chuckle
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the people stranded were at risk of imminent death, ie they're trapped in a war zone or danger area then fine, the government should step in. Not because they're stuck because the planes aren't flying, people have had to wait 6 days. It's hardly the end of the world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's the governments duty to help brits in trouble abroad.
    There are an estimeted 150,000 stranded ...with kids old people etc.
    Many of these people have budgeted finely and are skint after their little spring break ...they have no means to get home but some of you don't give a fuck from your comfy little worlds.

    In part I agree.

    The question is, what do you expect the Govt to do about it? Send the navy, hire some buses? At waht point, on the first day, second? After a week?

    Sometimes I worry that people expect their Govt to be more than they can be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, it wasn't the end of the world. No, it's not as bad as earthquakes etc. But the fact remains that 150,000+ Britons were stuck (myself included). And unless you experienced it for yourself, you wouldn't know what it was like. It was unpleasant and it was difficult. And assistance was necessary. I don't know how I'm going to pay back the £700+ I now owe the credit card companies for my boat and rail tickets.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Typical spin really - the RN went to pick up soldiers who were stranded, which is the navy's job really, whilst they were doing that they picked up a few civvies - bit like Dunkirk really, without the dive bombers
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Buzzlegum wrote: »
    And assistance was necessary.

    What sort?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Information would have been nice... I agree that laying on Navy ships was extreme, as the ferry companies were doing well. But extra trains/coaches were definately a necessity. People can't just be left.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Buzzlegum wrote: »
    Information would have been nice... I agree that laying on Navy ships was extreme, as the ferry companies were doing well. But extra trains/coaches were definately a necessity. People can't just be left.

    I think I am in agreement that "people just can't be left". But, as one of those affected, did you think that the response was appropriate? My feeling was that money would have been better spent on securing accommodation/living expenses while stranded passengers waited for the flights to resume. This, to my mind, is the purpose of having embassies/consulates abroad. What were they up to while all this was going on? Instead, Brown seems to have opted for a showy "Dunkirk" exercise that was inappropriate and ineffectual.
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