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To quit or not to quit?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
My family are on Social Security benefits and we do not own our own house. We get out rent paid for. My mum and dad do odd jobs on the side, but they are not registered as working. My mum is registered as a 'carer' for my sister who has ADHD. My dad is registered as having back problems etc.

However, I have had a part-time job for nearly a year now. I work 20 hours a week, and I also attend sixthform. I am 17 but I will be 18 in a few weeks.

We have recently been sent a later (because I am turning 18 soon) from the City Council, asking whether I am still living at home/do I have a job/am I in full-time education, to make sure that we're getting the benefits that we are entitled to.

The Social Security do not know that I have a job and my mum is now telling me to quit, to protect us, and she said even if I quit and then re-apply and start working again, I'll have to pay some of the rent on our house, as I will be the only working adult in our household. She is talking over £60 a week and I only earn around £100, sometimes less. She is saying if I do not hand in my notice soon, she will kick me out of the house. I do not want to quit! I need the money and have a lot of friends where I work. Please help?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In my experience the council don't check what you tell them, so maybe your mum could say you've moved out? It's also worth checking how much rent you would have to pay, because as far as I know its a fixed amount reguardless of what you're earning. I was earning £70 a week a few years ago and was expected to pay £87 a week rent. If you are expected to pay less than you're earning, is some money better than none? It might be worth pointing out to your parents that people resent those on benefits most of the time, but in a recession there's pressure on the job centre to get unemployment stats down, so if she really wants to protect you she should tell your dad to stop doing these odd jobs.
    Do you have any plans for when you finish college? If you want to work full time you'll have to keep this job, but if you want to go to uni you might finding quitting and using the time to revise helpful. If you do have to quit, keep in touch with your friends from work to increase your chances of getting your job back in the future.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    geneve wrote: »
    So basically I'm going to be paying for the baby you're planning... Awesome.

    Totally unrelated to her question, inappropriate comment. Those of us who have been well brought up were taught that if we have nothing good to say, it is best to say nothing at all.

    Lyric is obviously in a difficult situation at home, and a difficult time of her life, and you aren't helping.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, you don't have any advice about what she should do about her job and home situation here then?

    From the sounds of it, it's quite a complicated dilema where she is experiencing divided loyalties towards herself and her self-worth and progression, her famiy, and citizenship issues. It's more complicated than 'ooh look, attempting to cheat the benefits system' and if you can't see that then perhaps you aren't as emotionally intelligent as you think you are.

    Can you not also see that advice for her to find a way to keep her job but not become homeless and not alienate her family might allow her to develop the sense of self that she needs to not feel terrible about her breasts and not have a baby that she's not ready to have? Having a dig doesn't help!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In my experience the council don't check what you tell them, so maybe your mum could say you've moved out? .

    So your condoning benifit fraud? You do realise with your parents doing "odd" jobs they are commiting fraud as well.

    Also regardless of whether your working or not, once you turn 18 and YOUR not in full time education she will lose a lot of benifits.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's great that you earn your own money and your mother is out order for threatening to throw you out if you don't quit your job. You're not responsible for your parents so it's not fair to quit your job so they get extra benefits.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lea_uk wrote: »
    It's great that you earn your own money and your mother is out order for threatening to throw you out if you don't quit your job. You're not responsible for your parents so it's not fair to quit your job so they get extra benefits.

    But at 18 her parents aren't responsible for housing her.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Being homeless at 18 along with having issues with insecurity sucks though too, housing issues are on of the most stressful things a person can go through...
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Boards Champion
    Katralla: nail on head.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Katralla, thank you. What you said means a lot :)

    I am not trying to cheat the benefit system! This is not my mess; this is my parents'. I just need a way out. I wish they just had legit jobs, if I'm honest! I do not want to live a life of crime like them.
    I don't think saying I've moved out on the form would be a good idea, as they would want to know a lot of details.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    But at 18 her parents aren't responsible for housing her.
    But surely it's wrong to throw her out because she won't quit her job.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    So, you don't have any advice about what she should do about her job and home situation here then?

    If she wants to continue living there it's clear her mum expects her to pay her own way to cover some of the rent. £60 a week isn't entirely unreasonable. Telling her that as an adult she needs to quit paid "legit" work otherwise they'll lose their benefits and the house, again isn't entirely unreasonable. Or am I missing something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    So your condoning benifit fraud? You do realise with your parents doing "odd" jobs they are commiting fraud as well.

    Also regardless of whether your working or not, once you turn 18 and YOUR not in full time education she will lose a lot of benifits.

    I'm not condoning benefit fraud. If you'd have read my whole post you would see that in some cases your expected to pay more towards rent than you're actually in earning. Therefore paying rent is not an option, unless people on benefits aren't really human and are just making up the need to eat just to get attention. If Lyric can afford to pay the amount expected that's a different thing. It does sound like the benefits of working outweigh the potential problems.
    The council don't ask questions if you say you've moved to an area they're not responsible for, but maybe you could point out to your mum that, as it tends to be the whole family that cheats the system, the fact that you have a job suggests that they are really in need of the help.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not condoning benefit fraud. If you'd have read my whole post you would see that in some cases your expected to pay more towards rent than you're actually in earning.

    Sorry but I take a direct quote from you
    In my experience the council don't check what you tell them, so maybe your mum could say you've moved out?


    Here you have said she should lie to the council and say she has moved out when she hasn't, just because the council do not "check" on things, now this quote is CLEARLY you condoning or suggesting her and her family to commit fraud.

    Lyric, I am glad your wanting to do this without lying to the council

    I want to ask you a question but please do not take offence, do you believe/feel your parents are cheating the benefit system. i mean and feel free not to answer, but why does your dad not work, i mean if your mum is a carer fair enough, but your dad?

    Unfortunately it will be a case of, if you work you're parents will lose benefits and have to pay rent etc, now if that is because of you working, why should they have to pay and not you? my twin is going through something similar, hes finishing uni and it is a case of.

    He works my mum loses free rent (she is disabled)
    He's out of work she doesn't but he can't earn anything
    He can move out, it'll cost more but my mum will keep her free rent

    now from the looks of it you have three options from where im sitting.

    1 - Work and pay rent, if on benefits your parents can't cover the costs. however you could demand your dad should work (depending on why he is unemployed

    2 - Quit your job and not work, your parents shouldn't lose too many benefits if any.

    3 - Move out, they wont be responsible and lose any benefits.

    Just to state, if you choose to lie about
    - Living with your parents (eg tell DWP you've moved out when you haven't)
    - Stop working, then reapply, get a new job but do not tell the council you are working or just outright lie about your working status

    YOU are committing fraud.

    I wish you the best of luck with this
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lea_uk wrote: »
    But surely it's wrong to throw her out because she won't quit her job.

    Morally, yes. Financially, no. And just because it's "wrong" doesn't mean it wont happen.

    It sounds like a fairly classic poverty trap.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    Morally, yes. Financially, no. And just because it's "wrong" doesn't mean it wont happen.

    It sounds like a fairly classic poverty trap.

    However if the parents "can not work" and are on benefits legitimately, even morally how can they allow the daughter to work, while they lose benefits and have to pay rent,

    surly if she is earning and they are losing, she should have to make up what they lose, as it is her working causing them to lose benefits.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    surly if she is earning and they are losing, she should have to make up what they lose, as it is her working causing them to lose benefits.
    That's what I was thinking.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    However if the parents "can not work" and are on benefits legitimately, even morally how can they allow the daughter to work, while they lose benefits and have to pay rent,

    surly if she is earning and they are losing, she should have to make up what they lose, as it is her working causing them to lose benefits.

    Yes Hellfire, that's what a poverty trap is.

    When she hits 18, they will be losing the child benefit (unless she stays in full time education) and the housing allowance (unless she stops earning)

    If her work doesn't bring in enough to cover the rent, it looks like it's low enough that she will be eligible for income support, and consequently housing allowance - but it'll take time to process, and in the meantime the rent still has to be paid.

    On the other hand, the OP has access to enough spare income for 2500/year on elective treatment, so money isn't as tight as it might be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Big Gay wrote: »
    Yes Hellfire, that's what a poverty trap is.

    When she hits 18, they will be losing the child benefit (unless she stays in full time education) and the housing allowance (unless she stops earning)

    If her work doesn't bring in enough to cover the rent, it looks like it's low enough that she will be eligible for income support, and consequently housing allowance - but it'll take time to process, and in the meantime the rent still has to be paid.

    On the other hand, the OP has access to enough spare income for 2500/year on elective treatment, so money isn't as tight as it might be.

    Yeah this is near enough whats happening with my mum and brother,
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I only earn around £80 a week, and our rent is £65, and I would have to pay around £40 of that. Plus, give my mum money for the Income Support benefit she would lose out on, plus pay pole tax. I'll be left with £20 a week, if that.

    And the reason my mum wants me to quit my job is because she hasn't declared it to the Social Sercurity for all the time I've been working. If I don't quit and they find out through my tax code that I am working and have been doing so for the past year, my mum will be fined or taken to court.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lyric wrote: »
    I only earn around £80 a week, and our rent is £65, and I would have to pay around £40 of that. Plus, give my mum money for the Income Support benefit she would lose out on, plus pay pole tax. I'll be left with £20 a week, if that.

    And the reason my mum wants me to quit my job is because she hasn't declared it to the Social Sercurity for all the time I've been working. If I don't quit and they find out through my tax code that I am working and have been doing so for the past year, my mum will be fined or taken to court.

    Too damn right, your mum is claiming fraudulent benefits, it is illegal.

    I think you have all the options, you need to decide what to do, and pretty soon.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    She wants me to hand my notice into work tonight or tommorrow. I badly do not want to! I don't think I should! I haven't committed a single crime, yet she is forcing me to cover for her. She said if I don't, I'll have to leave on Saturday.
    What do you suggest I do?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lyric wrote: »
    She wants me to hand my notice into work tonight or tommorrow. I badly do not want to! I don't think I should! I haven't committed a single crime, yet she is forcing me to cover for her. She said if I don't, I'll have to leave on Saturday.
    What do you suggest I do?


    Hmmm it is a hard thing, I mean do you have anywhere to go if you did leave? I know it isn't the best option,

    I understand and appreciate it isn't your fault and you've done nothing wrong, I believe your mum is putting you in a inappropriate position, but what is she suppose to do? she cannot afford to pay it, have you thought about getting a fulltime job?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it would be a really good idea to find out exactly where you stand legally Lyric. The best place to do that is going to be the Citizen's Advice in your local area.

    You can search for the nearest on the following link -
    http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/cabdir.ihtml

    They should be able to explain exactly where you stand legally and hopefully help you deal with whatever you decide to do. It certainly sounds like your being put in a very difficult position by your parents, but it may not be as bad as it looks - they'll be able to make sure everything is clear.

    Whilst getting involved in a housing argument with your parent's would be really rough you might also want to speak to Shelter, who can offer you expert advice on housing. You can call them on 0808 800 4444
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    have you thought about getting a fulltime job?

    To be fair, I don't think quitting sixth form because of how a family member is abusing benefits is really going to be the best option. It'd be throwing away a lot of options for the future.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im sorry youre going through this. Its pretty shit
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    To be fair, I don't think quitting sixth form because of how a family member is abusing benefits is really going to be the best option. It'd be throwing away a lot of options for the future.

    Sorry, I didn't realise she is in fulltime education, Well I prob did but didn't take note. so yes, definitely not an option.

    I do think your mum is being unfair, she is only looking out for number 1,

    Legally I do not think you have much of a case for anything, i mean lets look at the facts

    Mum - on Benefits
    Dad - on Benefits,
    You (almost an adult) working part time, not your house.

    Basically your parents have every legal right to throw you out. regardless of the reasons there is no legal right for you to stay there :( however I am not sure if they have to give you reasonable notice (like with a tenant etc) something you might want to look into.

    Unfortunately with the benefits, there is nothing you can do here, the Department of Work and pensions will usually cut benefits if someone is in work.

    can you name what benefits they are on though?

    Income support?
    DLA?
    Carers allowance?
    Job Seekers Allowance,
    Housing Benefits?

    as some of these others can earn on, others you can't. Housing benefit seems the big one, obviously they are on this and yes if someone in the house is working and NOT in full time education you lose this.

    however are you planning on going to university or any other full time education once you finish sixth form? I know my brother can earn some money atm and my mum still gets her rent paid/free however she is on

    DLA
    Income Support
    Housing Benefit/Council Tax Benefit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair as someone who is 18 and in full time education I'm not certain a parent really does have the automatic right to just throw someone out, but I may be wrong, just think that should be clarified.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    To be fair as someone who is 18 and in full time education I'm not certain a parent really does have the automatic right to just throw someone out, but I may be wrong, just think that should be clarified.

    I've been trying to clarify this but everything I can find says as they are an adult, the parents have no legal responsibility to care for them any more,

    but of course she should definitely look into it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, it does seem pretty unfair, all things taken into account :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, a hunt on the internet may have found something interesting. You may or may not count as a dependent or non-dependent child but, it may not be relevent, depending on what benefits your mum is on. If she is on DLA care component or Attendence Allowance your income might not matter:
    "5.1 Non-dependant deductions

    Your housing benefit will be affected if you have a non-dependant living with you.

    A non-dependant is someone who is over 18 who is not your partner or a:

    * joint owner-occupier
    * a tenant
    * boarder
    * lodger
    * sub-tenant
    * paid carer provided by a charity or voluntary organisation

    Any adult son or daughter is considered to be a non-dependant.

    A deduction is made to your maximum Housing Benefit for each non-dependant who lives with you. The amount of any deduction depends on the non-dependant's income. If they are under 25 and on income support, income related employment and support allowance, income-based job seeker's allowance (JSA), or if they are a full-time student, then no deduction is made.

    "Non-dependant deductions are not made if you or your partner is registered blind or receives the DLA care component or Attendance Allowance. "

    from http://www.disabilityalliance.org/f44.htm

    Phone Shelter RIGHT NOW and/or make an appointment to see the CAB tomorrow.

    Don't take what the council tell you as true until you have seen a qualified benefits advisor as the council often get rules about Housing Benefit wrong.

    You need to act quickly to get this sorted. Do not drag your heels. Find out whether your mum is on those benefits or not.
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