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England, Gun Control, and its Crime Rate
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Try this and see whether it works or not.
How can ANYONE subjugate themselves to this travesty (PC word for bullshit)and then convince themselves that they are a "free" society?
Do you have such abjectly low self-esteem that you consider your lives unworthy of defending?
THIS is what draws the "sheep" comments: you would collectively prefer to victimize yourselves than defend yourselves.
As you describe yourself, you are one whom I would seek first to train and arm.
btw ~ it is not a poor self image through neglectful grooming habits which motivates the cretin, and your hairspray or deodorant will not deter him. More than likely, simply piss him off, and then you are REALLY in peril...
Very true, even a kick to the groin does more damage to yourself than your attacker. Best way to end a fight? To end the life of your attacker. Best way to do it is with a knife or gun. Even I doubt my own hand to hand combat skills and have a knife on me at all times. I may be trained to use my hands to kill, but you never know the training your attacker may have.
I note few comments on Scarletts thread about her hometown, another family wiped out by a pissed off man with a gun.
Its always worth remembering guys that no matter how often you remind us of our crime rate, the US still has a homicide rate 17 times that of ours.
There are many more aspects to the Tony Martin case than what is presented in that article.
Bullshit and you know it. A gun is a tool, and like all tools it can be used well or badly. Or perhaps you have proof that a gun could never be used for good? I'd really love to see it.
Really?
How about the weapons carried by the Home Guard in 1940?
Or the weapons that were used by the Allied troops to stop and eventually destroy the Axis?
How about the weapons used by Police Officers to stop, permanently or otherwise, dangerous criminals?
Over half the world considered the death of Adolf Hitler a good thing, and would have considered it such if an assassin's bullet or bomb had done it instead of his own hand. Seems to me that his own use of a pistol in the end was a "good" use of a firearm for the rest of the world.
As for gun control legislation, it doesn't work and never has. You can talk about your homicide rate, but how about looking at your violent crime rate instead? The only functional gun control is controlling a weapon to hit what you intend to.
Respectfully... I have had pepper spray in my eyes, too, in a training scenario. Hurt? Yes. Stop? Did not even slow me down. :rolleyes: "Non-lethal" defenses are a great way to end YOUR day...
Please think about what you are saying. To defend yourself is a "bad" thing? Are you so utterly without worth that it would be better to submit to anything than to defend yourself?
I can think of no reason why privite citizens should need to carry guns. (i am anti-hunting BTW)
In the case of tony martin : he ended up in jail for using a gun illegelly. This i think is unfair, but if we didn't have gun-control he'd quite probabily be dead, if not from the theives he ended up killing, but from one of the other 6 that had previously robbed him.
<i>sidenote : the thing that really made me laugh is the young theive's (with previous convictions) family tried to sue tony martin for potential loss of earnings. loss of earning? what's the current average salery for a burgler? It makes me realise that the parents really do have an effect on the children</i>
There are means of defending yourself that don't require you carry a gun, the best of them involve not putting yourself in a posistion where you are at risk. Its when people say "why should i be scared?" and "I have every right to walk down this darkend ally without being attacked" that nasty shit happens.
At the moment the police force (esp. the Met) treat gun related incidents with a higher priority than peadophiles (wow! thats a media-friendly comment). I'll be happy when C&E treat gun smuggling more seriously than drug smuggling.
That paticular fantasy should stay within the Star Trek re-runs... :rolleyes:
C'mon, now... I am working at remaining civil with you, and have taken more of a protective position concerning you and your safety. Let's not get insulting, OK?
MANY people have a relatively high resistance to pain. Non-lethal measures might work on the less motivated, but anyone with an athletic experience learns how to push on through pain/discomfort.
I am 6' tall, and 200+ lbs. (90 kg?)... MUCH bigger than you. What are you going to do when that pepper spray is taken from you (because it proves ineffective upon the person attacking you), and then is used upon you?
What would I d oif every single person in the UK felt they needed to own and carry a gun, never go out?
You might actually live in a polite society then.
As you may have guessed, I have little use for pepper spray...a 9mm on the other hand...better judged by twelve than caried by six!
:cool:
I am a curious person in this. I am English, but like guns. I think they are great sport, and a discipline which I would very much like to master. Currently, I practice regularly with what I can, and would like freer restrictions on what I can use and carry.
I do, however, see the legislative difficulty in making guns more freely accessible. Even sane people can turn violent, as evidenced in the German shootings, and the background checks are not anywhere near deep enough (nothing can be) to probe in to that and forsee it.
We have, then, a scenario, where neither side will budge. Accidents, mistakes, and deaths may indeed happen, and while terrible for the individuals and families concerned, they must be viewed in proportion to the societal whole. Only then can it be assessed. I see no reasonable solution.
The crime debate is academic. We don't know what will happen if guns are legalised. Yes, we can look at the USA as an example, but other places provide counter-examples. The only way to find out the truth is to do it. But that's a political Pandora's Box.
People will show strong bias, one way or another. I would recommend that all have experience of guns before they naysay, but then, I appreciate that all might not want to. Personally, I would welcome the opportunity to carry firearms, and to master the discipline which has already taught me so much.
I have caried a pistol most of my adult life...and during much of my youth as well. Not because I had to but rather as a matter of choise...and have no quams about using a weapon if a need arises...there are recognizable consequences so this is always a consideration.
As for the disarmed citizen who is uncertain of their ability or fearful of weapons generally...they are safer for the armed citizens in their midst.
But a couple of points. Good firearms are expensive which requires thinking and preperation before purchsase...and they require skill to use...so we are talking about a commitment in money and time that is far more substantial than geting a drivers liscense for an automobile...and this does not include liscensing, permits, etc., or training costs!
The ParaOrdnance .45 that I have carried for more than five years represents a little over $1000 in original cost and altered parts; to have had it built by a gunsmith would have been another $1000 (Diesel could give an honest appraisal of my gunsmithing abilities
Does that represent the "average" person? I would think not. However, that "average" person probably cannot put three rounds into the size of your fist in one second, at a distance of 15 > 20 yds., with no more thought than reflexively covering your mouth when you cough.
My "wardrobe" is planned around carrying that sidearm 24/7/366, rather than having my choice of clothing dictate the firearm. I carry it whether it is 20F outside, or 100F outside (as it has been this week :eek: ).
It requires training, it requires discipline, and it requires commitment. Whatever transpires within a "Twilight Zone" moment is a consequence of those three factors... whether you survive the moment, or become a statistic.
In this country, where concealed weapons permits are generally available in more places than not, those who choose NOT to arm themselves are safer because of the doubt within the miscreant's mind as to whether the "prey" in front of them is someone who is afraid of guns and will cower in a confrontational moment, or is another like me who will lead them to a life altering moment.
The offer has been made to several within this forum that if you should ever "come to America", and find yourself in the Northwest (Oregon and Washington), I would spend time with them and avail them of the learning experience with firearms. That offer is also extended to you, "PussyKatty", in the hope of making your life safer...
Sounds like something I read, once upon a time...
Stranger In A Strange Land, was it?
--Robert A. Heinlein
'The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress'
Right author, wrong source. See what twenty years will do to a person's memory? :eek:
I'm sorry but I just pissed myself laughing at that comment.
Do you seriously believe that the US is a Polite society?
Of course, you might also expect a corollary effect that tempers would lengthen: no-one wants to get shot for having 'impolitely' shot someone else.