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'Thousands dead' in Haiti quake

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No. It is awful though. My fiancé used to work out there as a bodyguard, the provisions for poor Haitians are non-existent, the conditions they live in are terrible, and I doubt their government is going to be of any use in this situation whatsoever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    too sad to know this. RIP all the souls.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not long ago it was the tsunamie in the Indian Ocean, earthquake in China and now this. God bless the Haitians- hope they remain strong in the wake of such a big natural disaster affecting their biggest city
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    Not long ago it was the tsunamie in the Indian Ocean, earthquake in China and now this. God bless the Haitians- hope they remain strong in the wake of such a big natural disaster affecting their biggest city
    Not to turn this into a religious debate or anything, but I think God has done enough already for the Haitians, and they'd be far better off without his blessing...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    While we wait for God to get his finger out, we can help here :

    https://www.oxfam.org.uk/donate/haiti-earthquake/index.php
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Not to turn this into a religious debate or anything, but I think God has done enough already for the Haitians, and they'd be far better off without his blessing...

    its just a saying dude.......I'm not religious in fact
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    its just a saying dude.......I'm not religious in fact
    Fair enough.

    Going back to the topic, they could be looking at in excess of 100k dead now. Not pretty at all.

    If only the international community took this as an opportunity to get rid of the many shanty towns that exist in the place and build decent housing for everyone...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If only the international community took this as an opportunity to get rid of the many shanty towns that exist in the place and build decent housing for everyone...

    I agree with this. However, a huge part of the problem is corruption within their own government. I know when my partner was working out there, he recalls a meeting between a charity who were offering to build a proper public school in Haiti (included in the plans was a structure that was designed to withstand earthquakes/ensure minimal damage to a significant degree). The official govt response was effectively "just give us the money".

    Haiti was ranked as the most corrupt country in the world in 2006 by the Corruptions Perception Index. I think even if the international community did pour money into the country, it wouldn't necessarily go to the right places, unfortunately.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If God exists, I'm sure it's all part of his plan.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    If God exists, I'm sure it's all part of his plan.
    If it's the God of the Bible that exists he says in his big book that Satan is the God of this world and he will intervene in his own time.
    With a bit of luck it might be true.

    Meanwhile ...I'm impressed with Obama and the Clintons ...for the first time ever.
    They are pulling out all the stops.
    5,ooo marines and an aircraft carrier is making very good use of the American death machine ...almost swords into ploughshares.
    The Clintons seem to genuinely be working round the clock ...no doubt working on the many high profile contacts they have in the world as well as getting money together and urging everyone to join in.

    If you get the chance ...bung a couple of quid in ...often over the next few months.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Poor sods. Haiti has had it tough, make no mistake.

    Any time you're cursing your problems here in good old Blighty, read the history of 20th century Haiti, and your problems will seem very, very small in comparison.

    Requiescat in pace omnes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Not to turn this into a religious debate or anything, but I think God has done enough already for the Haitians, and they'd be far better off without his blessing...
    Teagan wrote: »
    While we wait for God to get his finger out

    Perhaps I should point out that a covenant has legal obligations that need performance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps I should point out that a covenant has legal obligations that need performance.

    That's a cynical cop out. I know loads of Christians that have been let down by God in spite of his promises of covenant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    That's a cynical cop out. I know loads of Christians that have been let down by God in spite of his promises of covenant.
    What kind of Christians?
    Catholics who pray to a woman and saints and bow before idols?
    Christians who kill their Christian brothers in war?
    Christians who take part in pagan rituals such as sun worship ...fertility festivals?
    Christians involved in the politics of this world?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Haiti and the failures of relief.


    President Obama promised $100 million in aid to Haiti on January 14, 2010. A Kentucky couple won $128 million in a Powerball lottery on December 24, 2010. The richest nation in the history of the world is giving Powerball money to a neighbor already suffering tens of thousands of deaths?

    Have You Ever Been Without Water?

    Hundreds of thousands of people in Haiti have had no access to clean water since the quake hit. Have you ever been in a place that has no water? Have you ever felt the raw fear in the gut when you are not sure where your next drink of water is going to come from? People can live without food for a long time. Without water? A very short time. In hot conditions people can become dehydrated in an hour. Lack of water puts you into shock and starts breaking down the body right away. People can die within hours if they are exposed to heat without water.

    A Toxic Stew of Death Is Brewing

    Take hundreds of thousands of people. Shock them with a major earthquake and dozens of aftershocks. Take away their homes and put them out in the open. Take away all water and food and medical care. Sit them out in the open for days with scorching temperatures. Surround them with tens of thousands of decaying bodies. People have to drink. So they are drinking bad water. They are getting sick. There is no place to go. What happens next?

    Aid Is Sitting at the Airport

    While millions suffer, humanitarian aid is sitting at the Port au Prince airport. Why? People are afraid to give it out for fear of provoking riots. Which is worse?



    Not one helicopter drop of anything ...food water medicine has taken place.
    Loads of helicopters flying overhead like some kind of wind up.
    So ...people have started looting whatever is available ...to survive.
    The marines will arrive at some point and start shooting these people.
    So far ...it's a fucking farce.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    democracybombs.jpg



    If we can do this when it suits us ...why aren't we doing it with aid?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    That's a cynical cop out. I know loads of Christians that have been let down by God in spite of his promises of covenant.

    That post strongly suggests a lack of understanding of contract law.

    As for the christians you refer to, and assuming they claim a covenant with the Abrahmic God, may I suggest they read the small print that is documented clearly in the contract.

    I am aware of very few people who keep to the terms and conditions of that contract, and I do not think they would like to be labelled christians.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If Christianity becomes illegal ..would they have enough evidence to convict you or could you plead innocence by way of idol worship ...pagan festivals etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If Christianity becomes illegal ..would they have enough evidence to convict you or could you plead innocence by way of idol worship ...pagan festivals etc.

    Under Mosaic Law, a good case could be made to convict Christianity ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What kind of Christians?
    Catholics who pray to a woman and saints and bow before idols?
    Christians who kill their Christian brothers in war?
    Christians who take part in pagan rituals such as sun worship ...fertility festivals?
    Christians involved in the politics of this world?


    I think you misunderstood my post. I am no Christian.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That post strongly suggests a lack of understanding of contract law.

    As for the christians you refer to, and assuming they claim a covenant with the Abrahmic God, may I suggest they read the small print that is documented clearly in the contract.

    I am aware of very few people who keep to the terms and conditions of that contract, and I do not think they would like to be labelled christians.

    How does ONE line give you such a 'strong suggestion'?

    Would you kindly spell out your understanding of the Christian covenant with God and its small print please, if that indeed is what you are referring to, in implying that this is the reason why the Haitians haven't seen any sight of God in their distress?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Haiti and the failures of relief.


    President Obama promised $100 million in aid to Haiti on January 14, 2010. A Kentucky couple won $128 million in a Powerball lottery on December 24, 2010. The richest nation in the history of the world is giving Powerball money to a neighbor already suffering tens of thousands of deaths?

    Have You Ever Been Without Water?

    Hundreds of thousands of people in Haiti have had no access to clean water since the quake hit. Have you ever been in a place that has no water? Have you ever felt the raw fear in the gut when you are not sure where your next drink of water is going to come from? People can live without food for a long time. Without water? A very short time. In hot conditions people can become dehydrated in an hour. Lack of water puts you into shock and starts breaking down the body right away. People can die within hours if they are exposed to heat without water.

    A Toxic Stew of Death Is Brewing

    Take hundreds of thousands of people. Shock them with a major earthquake and dozens of aftershocks. Take away their homes and put them out in the open. Take away all water and food and medical care. Sit them out in the open for days with scorching temperatures. Surround them with tens of thousands of decaying bodies. People have to drink. So they are drinking bad water. They are getting sick. There is no place to go. What happens next?

    Aid Is Sitting at the Airport

    While millions suffer, humanitarian aid is sitting at the Port au Prince airport. Why? People are afraid to give it out for fear of provoking riots. Which is worse?



    Not one helicopter drop of anything ...food water medicine has taken place.
    Loads of helicopters flying overhead like some kind of wind up.
    So ...people have started looting whatever is available ...to survive.
    The marines will arrive at some point and start shooting these people.
    So far ...it's a fucking farce.

    How much of this is reliable first hand accounts though?

    Its once again backed up by unsubstantiated news.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    How much of this is reliable first hand accounts though?

    Its once again backed up by unsubstantiated news.

    It seems to be the only news coming out of the place.
    All the people in the streets are saying the same thing.
    Hundreds of reporters from around the world complete with camera crews seem to have gotten in there without to much difficulty so something strikes me as very wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That post strongly suggests a lack of understanding of contract law.

    That post suggests a complete lack of understanding of "faith"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not one helicopter drop of anything ...food water medicine has taken place.
    Loads of helicopters flying overhead like some kind of wind up.
    So ...people have started looting whatever is available ...to survive.
    The marines will arrive at some point and start shooting these people.
    So far ...it's a fucking farce.

    I always love it when someone with absolutely no understanding of the concept of complete state collapse and it's implications demonstrates that in a post.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    I always love it when someone with absolutely no understanding of the concept of complete state collapse and it's implications demonstrates that in a post.

    I understand thank you.
    A little bit down the news line you'll look foolish when the very same concerns I have start getting hammered out ...watch this space.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    During events such as this, it's hard to know exactly whom to believe. Such is the cacophony of voices out there reporting different things. Also, one has to remember that even when you listen to everything politicians say, they should not necessarily be believed.

    The key is to allow the aid agencies and those who know what they are doing to get on with the work they need to do. That must be the priority right now - and with the death toll going up practically every hour, time isn't on our side.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I understand thank you.
    A little bit down the news line you'll look foolish when the very same concerns I have start getting hammered out ...watch this space.

    I apologies that read worse that I meants it to sound.

    What I mean is that chaos will always follow a disaster like this, especially where the state wasn't great before hand.

    So much has been destoroyed and damaged, where do you start? By getting food in? Okay, but how do you deliver that food to the places of greatest need (which may not be the ones you can see from the capital), how do you get it there without roads, trucks and enough helicopters? How do you get enough trucks, roads and helicopters in, when the airport is full of planes trying to deliver food and water and the docks are so badly damaged that you cannot dock?

    How do you even know what's actually needed when the UN have lost the staff with the local knowledge?

    What do you do when people start looting? What about those with arms, do you just let them take what they want? How do you deal with the corruption?

    Do you get people into once place to feed them, or do you keep them apart because of the disease risk?

    If it was so damned easy to deliver aid then the UN would have it off to perfection by now, but they don't. It isn't easy.

    Unless you are sitting in the comfort of your own home watching it on the news, that is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    That post suggests a complete lack of understanding of "faith"

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    FAITH?
    Faith based on things perceived ...on knowledge?
    Or blind faith ...your a Catholic cos your mum said so?
    Lets talk Christian here ...a Christians faith is based on close examination of the scriptures.
    If it says it angers God that you erect idols and bow before them ...then you don't do it.
    If it says you can only pray to God in the name of his son ...but you insist on praying to saints or some temporary virgin ...then you have no faith.
    The contract between you and God doesn't even exist.
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