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The genesis of wooten bassett
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
From the previous thread,
You appear to be old enough to recall 2001 so you may also be aware of the (note the spelling) usama bin laden trial in the district of New York that began back in February 2001 and lasted until July. The american public were certainly primed with a bogeyman at the end of that, even if they had never heard the name previously.
This is a transcript of the beginning of the trial. (If any legal eagles are interested the full transcript is available).
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/binladen/binladen20501tt.pdf
morrocan roll wrote: »That picture was hammered into our minds within days of 9/11.
Obviously pre-prepared bollox.
You appear to be old enough to recall 2001 so you may also be aware of the (note the spelling) usama bin laden trial in the district of New York that began back in February 2001 and lasted until July. The american public were certainly primed with a bogeyman at the end of that, even if they had never heard the name previously.
This is a transcript of the beginning of the trial. (If any legal eagles are interested the full transcript is available).
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/binladen/binladen20501tt.pdf
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Comments
Is that true ?
Reported at the time,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5
Does asking for evidence seem unreasonble ? Habeas corpus ?
Furthermore, reported days later,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/17/afghanistan.terrorism11
Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI responded, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.” Tomb continued, “Bin Laden has not been formally charged in connection to 9/11.” Asked to explain the process, Tomb responded, “The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice then decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”
Haas pauses to ask the question, “If the US government does not have enough hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11, how is it possible that it had enough evidence to invade Afghanistan to ‘smoke him out of his cave?’”
Through corporate media, the Bush administration told the American people that bin Laden was “Public Enemy Number One,” responsible for the deaths of nearly 3,000 people on September 11, 2001. The federal government claims to have invaded Afghanistan to “root out” bin Laden and the Taliban, yet nearly six years later, the FBI said that it had no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.
The most Hollywood style crime in history.
The most daring crime in modern times.
All the evidence spirited away.
All attempts at getting anyone ...anyone ...to investigate and God forbid gather evidence ...I'm living in strange times.
Just noting the court spelling of his name is at odds with most of the media (osama). The FBI also uses usama. (The CIA is reported to have called him Tim but that's a whole different story from a different time)
Hope you haven't forgotten to have fun.
I don't really get what's to note there, osama and usama are both translations of the same name just like mikel/michael.
The darker it gets the louder I laugh?
No ...I aint forgotten to have good wholesome mad crazy fun.:thumb:
Hold on. Your timeline is out of kilter. Your references refer to AFTER the bombing commenced. Prior to that, the Taliban stated that as bin Laden was a 'guest in their country', Pashtun and Taliban codes of behaviour require that guests be granted hospitality and asylum, and refused to hand him over. Trying to 'negotiate' your way out of the dragon's den after waking him up is too little, too late. By then, millions of dollars had been spent and thousands of troops had been mobilised which made it very difficult to suddenly stop the juggernaut. Furthermore, the Taliban offered to hand bin Laden over to third party countries to be tried under Islamic law. Well, Islamic law is not recognised INTERNATIONAL law.
I'm quite prepared to accept that Bush took advantage of the situation to further his hawk'ish policies but the Taliban underestimated the fallout of accommodating, training and harbouring terrorists and deservedly got a smack in the nose. The reason that a 'smack in the nose' is all they actually got rather than complete annihilation and are resurgent and strong today, is because the Bush/Blair cunt partnership wanted to expand their hostilities outside the internationally accepted remit.
The MAJORITY? Over 50% of Americans believe that a jet liner did not make the hole? Please post links to reputable sites stating this.
Your post regarding the supposed underground Bin Laden lair was always just a newspaper speculation and I never believed it as fact.
But I don't want to get into an argument about this with you because you really believe what you believe and you will never be swayed. I don't share this same belief and until I am presented with undoubtable evidence, I will not be swayed either and my postings will always be in line with the non-conspiratorial version of events.
I say this because a handful of unexplained anomalies lie at the heart of all conspiratorial thinking. Such notions are refuted by noting that scientific theories are not built on single facts alone but on a convergence of evidence assembled from multiple lines of inquiry.
Generally, the whole 9/11 conspiracy seem to have built an unlikely alliance between left-wing 9/11 conspiracy theorists, right-wing Holocaust deniers and Islamic fundamentalists. There have been a number of articles in highly esteemed publications that adequately rebut the various 9/11 conspiracy theories such as in Scientific American, Popular Mechanics and The Skeptic's Dictionary. Furthermore, even Germany's 'Der Spiegel' has dismissed 9/11 conspiracy theories as a "panoply of the absurd", stating "as diverse as these theories and their adherents may be, they share a basic thought pattern: great tragedies must have great reasons."
But may I congratulate you on now holding just the nicotine addiction and I apologise for the slur against your good name.
With someone like Bin Laden, I seriously doubt we will ever know he is dead.
Pedant!!!
The legal systems I have studied include due process.
If someone is suspected of a crime then evidence to substantiate that suspicion is usually brought forward.
Bombing the suspected location of a suspect (who you later admit to having no evidence on) is not in any criminal procedural rules I have witnessed.
Benazir Bhutto named his killer in a BBC interview with David Frost as Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh.
The interview was subsequently edited by the BBC to remove this claim without explanation.
Bhutto was herself subsequently "edited".
Coincidence ? Perhaps, but the plot thickens, doesn't it ?
Fuck, they're everywhere
Makes me chuckle when people say "dont let the bed bugs bite"
Should be more worried about bin laden
The Taliban did not observe international due process so why would they follow it with Bin Laden?
As far as I am aware, Bin Laden has never emphatically denied being behind the 9/11 attacks. He was quite happy to take responsibility for the various attacks in Aden, Algeria, the Philippines, Egypt, Jordan and the Yemen and so without that denial, one could reasonably assume that he was behind it.
In 1998, he released to the press a new fatwa calling on Muslims everywhere to murder Americans wherever they were found. Later that year, in the public announcement of another fatwa, he announced that North Americans are "very easy targets." He told the attending journalists, "You will see the results of this in a very short time."
In 2004, he stated ""Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11
I saw that interview and it may well have been an unfortunate slip of the tongue. She didn't expand on it at all and I thought at the time that it didn't make sense in the context of what she was saying. I thought she had meant to refer to Daniel Pearl or someone from the Daniel Pearl incident (but I can't remember those details clearly any more).
You may and thank you kindly.
I haven't had any other addiction for over twenty five years now.
I miss it occasionally.
Where were we ....
Try in simple or complicated terms ...how a massive airliner could have caused that hole ...that tunnel.
Think about it ..Google it ...but can anyone explain how that can be done ...and could it be recreated in a lab do you think?
But you are assuming that the walls of the Pentagon were built at the same standard as regular buildings. They weren't. Because it would always be a potential terrorist target, the Pentagon walls were heavily built and reinforced to protect it from blast damage etc. You seem to assume, too, that the plane was made of something like stainless steel. This would be a misconception about the construction of aircraft. Jetliners are very light and fragile compared to buildings with their aluminium hulls being just a few millimetres thick. The walls would have been strong enough to prevent breaching by the light and less bulky parts of a jetliner such as the outer wings and tail but the hole could easily made by the punching force, momentum and inertia of the weight of the main chassis of the aircraft.
Sorry, dude. This whole conspiracy theory still remains extremely unlikely to me and at this stage, I am firmly unconvinced.
Come up with all these theories and scenarios, and yet nothing to back it up. When they say "we cant back it up" they blame that on another conspiracy.
Why? What makes you think that?
Chomsky makes a very good point about this when he was asked during a recent LSE seminar in London:
http://richmedia.lse.ac.uk/publicLecturesAndEvents/20091029_1830_humanRightsInThe21stCentury.mp3
Skip to 52:30
His basic point is 'Why if the debate around this is so compelling around technical details, why has it not taken place in the usual channels of debate and peer review?'
It's not "another conspiracy", it's the same one. If there really was a conspiracy to lie about it, of course they'd also do their best to make sure people who say the opposite aren't heard.
Usama was born in the middle east. His name will have been written in arabic letters on his birth certificate. There is no 'right' way of spelling his name with our western letters. We just have to make it look close enough to the pronunciation. It seems that 'Osama' is another possible spelling
If you read your above post ...it seems you agree with me.
The bulkiest and heaviest components are the engines ...nine tons each of stainless steel and titanium and considered almost indestructable.
The fragile nose bores it's way through the reinforced walls but the near indestructible engines don't even impact with the walls?
*sighs* :rolleyes:
The wings would have been crushed back against the sides of the main body of the plane, taking the engines with them. Think about it.
But to conclude, here is my final offering on this :
• many eyewitnesses saw a plane crash into the Pentagon
• the passenger and crew remains from American Airlines flight 77 were recovered at the Pentagon crash site. http://old.911digitalarchive.org/crr/documents/1276.pdf
• eyewitness reports and photographs show plane debris at the Pentagon crash site http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm
• passengers on American Airlines flight 77 made phone calls, reporting their aircraft had been hijacked. At 9:12 am, approximately 10 minutes after the American Airlines flight 77 had been hijacked, passenger Renee May called her mother, Nancy May, to report that the plane had been hijacked and that the passengers had been herded to the back of the plane. Minutes later, passenger Barbara Olson called her husband Ted Olson, the solicitor general of the United States, also reporting that the flight had been hijacked, and that the hijackers had knives and box cutters.
• senior al Qaeda leaders have admitted they conducted the September 11 attacks
But more importantly as far as YOU are concerned, even the most 'respected' conspiracy theorists now admit that a plane hit the Pentagon. You REALLY need to let this one go now.
Erm, haven't you watched Lost? I reckon a rich industrialist picked up an already crashed plane and dug up a few hundred graves and scattered them about whilst nobody was looking.....:rolleyes: