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Wooton Bassett

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course it's asking for trouble, that's what Choudary wants. People should be very careful how they react to this, and a lot of them don't seem to be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    Shyboy has hit the nail on the head.

    Yeah im all for free speech, and while the Dutch cartoonist (recently in the papers) did cause controversy, he was expressing his freedom of speech. I always thought freedom of speach is paramount.

    With this march, they can say all they want that their intent is not to cause panic and dismay amongst the populace, but knowing fine well that it would, and still going ahead, is tantamount to deliberately antagonising the crowds.
    Maybe someone should print up those cartoons and post them along the route?

    It's all about freedom, isn't it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bring on judgement day i say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i didnt know about any of that
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The link is not working for me at the moment so I don't know the contents. Obviously I'll be more than happy to change my previous position if something vile was said- I was simply going by what I've read so far regarding the proposed march.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    The link is not working for me at the moment so I don't know the contents. Obviously I'll be more than happy to change my previous position if something vile was said- I was simply going by what I've read so far regarding the proposed march.

    Read on
    May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon those who follow the guidance.

    Following the public announcement of an impending procession by islam4uk (a branch of Al-Muhajiroun) through the Market Town of Wootton Basset we thought it only appropriate that we provide an explanation and a little more about the purpose behind the procession, especially to the family and friends of those who have died there and who may have been led to believe that it is merely an act of incitement or provocation.

    We begin by inviting all non-Muslims to Islam, the perfect and most beautiful way of life, a favour from Allah (God) to mankind to take him out of the darkness of worshipping his own desires to the exclusive worship, submission and obedience of Allah alone, without partners and to testify the Messenger-ship of the final Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). We urge you to embrace Islam and save yourselves and your family from the hellfire and not to believe the lies and distortions which the Western media and non-Islamic regimes would have you believe about Muslims and their true intentions. Islam means submission and the Muslim is the one who submits to the will of God in his life. Verily the Messenger Muhammad told us that whoever heard his name from the Jews and Christians and did not believe would be held accountable for that on the day of judgement.

    We start by pointing out what many wise people already know i.e. that the British public have once again been lied to by their politicians about the war in Afghanistan. What began as a fight for freedom and democracy and to protect the human rights of the civilians and to find Sheikh Usama Bin Laden (by the use of B52 bombers) has today become a campaign to protect the security of the British public back home and it has gone from being a campaign which could be completed without firing a weapon within 3 years to one which could go on for 40 or 50 years with a heavy cost to the participants.

    In actual fact the foreign policy of the USA and UK is not about protecting the rights of Muslims or propagating democracy and freedom nor is it about the threat posed by the people in Afghanistan to the British public at all, but rather it is to establish their own military, economic, strategic and ideological interests in the region. The rich resources of Afghanistan, its position on the cusp between the Indian sub-continent, Southern Russian, Asia and China and its populations call for the Shari'ah are the real reasons why the military has sought to establish a permanent role there, no matter what the cost to the lives and wealth of the indigenous people or indeed their own. Pivotal in this is the desire to prevent Muslims from running their own affairs and establishing an Islamic State if they so wish but rather to maintain a puppet in the area (Mr Karzia) to maintain and protect Western interests.

    In order to create an atmosphere where these greedy objectives can be accomplished the Western and even Eastern media have constantly shown atrocities being committed against the ordinary people of Afghanistan and Pakistan, in markets, universities and public gathering places and have then blamed these on the perceived enemy, in order to discredit any legitimate struggle for liberation and in order to demonise them in the eyes of the world and thereby justify the occupation and real intentions. The truth about such bloodshed and mayhem is only now becoming public knowledge after information about the real perpetrators has emerged (such as the CIA related agency Black Water). The billions of dollars paid to the Pakistan regime by the USA/UK alliance and to the Secret services in Pakistan, their army and to the Karzai Afghan regime by way of bribes has led them to slaughter their own citizens with the help of the USA/UK and to then blame the Taliban in an attempt to subdue those seeking liberation to fulfil their right to run their lives by divine law and to protect the US/UK military and economic interests. With additional atrocities being committed by the USA and UK through indiscriminate air raids and other operations the number of ordinary Muslim men, women and children who have been killed has reached horrendous proportions. Not to mention the torture and abuse of basic rights by the occupiers in Afghanistan, such as in Bagram Air Base, the case of Dr Affia Siddiqui being a clear and brutal example.

    There is no doubt in most people's minds that the final conclusion to the current conflict in Afghanistan has already been written. Ultimate victory for those fighting in their own backyard, familiar with the mountains and plains and their supporters who struggle to protect their sanctities from the foreign aggressors cannot be denied. The signs for this are already appearing with incohesive thinking among the British and American chain of command, the crippling effect of the war on their economies back home and the depression of the soldiers realising that there is no real moral or ethic reason for them to murder innocent men, women and children to fulfil their politicians agenda. Blaming a lack of equipment is one of the ways in which politicians have tried to shift the focus. It is noteworthy that unlike among the US and UK soldiers, there has not been one reported suicide or attempted suicide among those resisting occupation.

    As a consequence this can only mean much more destruction for the USA and UK sons and daughters sent by their uncaring leaders to their deaths. After all this would not be the first time that this region has acted as a grave yard for empires in history, notably the British and Russians.

    It is worth reminding those who are still not blinded by the media propaganda that Afghanistan is not a British Town near Wootton Basset but rather Muslim land which no one has the right to occupy, with a Muslim population who do not deserve their innocent men, women and children to be killed for political mileage and for the greedy interests of the oppressive US and UK regimes.

    The procession in Wootton Basset is therefore an attempt to engage the British publics minds on the real reasons why their soldiers are returning home in body bags and the real cost of the war. The conflict in Afghanistan is not an ‘honourable' defence of British values and a cause for the British to remain secure, rather the presence of the US and UK forces in Afghanistan is the cause of instability in the region and a cause of insecurity for the British people back home. The parades, the speeches about soldiers doing their duty and the feeling of patriotism has obfuscated the reality of the conflict and the murderous crimes being committed by the occupiers and their agents. The British public is blissfully unaware of what is being done in their name by the Blair/Brown regimes and were the truth known no doubt the pressure to withdraw all troops immediately would be much greater.

    It is our desire to end the cycle of violence and the quagmire in which we find ourselves in today in Afghanistan. For the British public to do their duty and force their regime to save their children from death and destruction, from an oppressive and costly campaign and to stop the occupation of Muslim land. We realise that, especially in times of war, we are up against a very sophisticated propaganda machine and no doubt raising awareness about the painful truth of this conflict will unleash a torrent of abuse from the media and government against us, who have their own predetermined agenda, however the world is today also small enough for those wishing to verify the truth to be able to do so via the many news and information outlets.

    Mr Anjem Choudary

    UK Head of Al-Muhajiroun
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nothing treachorous about the above, even though it talks a lot of garbage, specially regarding who's behind the attacks on civilians.

    However I'm not sure this is what CptCoatHanger was referring to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Do you mean that he doesn't sound extremist on this particular occasion?

    Or do you mean in general, such as his glorifying support for the "Fantastic Four" July 7 bombers?

    Or do you support his call for the death of illustrators of the Danish cartoons?

    Or perhaps you support his call from last year, whereby people who get drunk ought to be publicly flogged and declared that alcohol should be "removed from society"?

    Or even his goal is to abolish our democracy and impose a shariah state on all of us?
    No, I was just talking about what has been saying regarding the proposed march.

    I wasn't aware of anything else he have said.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course the argument is that suicide bombers and IED's wouldnt happen as much if British and US forces were not there, but its the Afghans, or other foreigners that are planting the roadside bombs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    No, I was just talking about what has been saying regarding the proposed march.

    I wasn't aware of anything else he have said.

    That's fair enough. :) But even Nick Griffin may seem to appear rational when his utterances are taken out of the context as a whole. It's the same with this guy. In reality, his extremism makes Nick Griffin come across like Julian Clary.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe, if they want to reach out to non-Muslims they should hold their meetings and communication out in the open, and invite everyone to attend. That way people could really make there minds up, and people so motivated could counter-protest in similary provocative ways. Why do people cling on the hope these people are rational? They so obviously aren't, if they were monitored for long enough you could probably get enough evidence to section most of them, trying to beat them by taking the high grounds is like telling a rottweiler to think about what its doing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    Of course the argument is that suicide bombers and IED's wouldnt happen as much if British and US forces were not there, but its the Afghans, or other foreigners that are planting the roadside bombs.

    the problem is that as much as IED etcs not all afghans are resposnsible for that, yet afghan civilians are being killed via drone attacks etc etc

    off topic imo i've always been against us going there, unless we were going to actually get a fully functioning non-puppet government that's representative, which in a country as diverse as afghanistan, can only be done in a majorly decentralised government with a lot of local autonomy with us effectively forcing free unbiased elections so warlords have reduced power - but that would never happen as we like to work with 'local power brokers' and paying 'tolls' on roads which fund the taliban

    this was always a generally unwinnable war, we failed in the 19th century and the soviet union failed before that, our armed forces are better off doing other things

    for christ sake this is who we're actively supporting: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/5080797/Hamid-Karzai-signs-law-legalising-rape-in-marriage.html
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    off topic imo i've always been against us going there, unless we were going to actually get a fully functioning non-puppet government that's representative, which in a country as diverse as afghanistan,

    I think the whole Iraq "debacle/tragedy/war-crime (Messrs Bush & Blair?) etc etc whatever-you-want-to-call-it", has clouded the reasons for us being in Afghanistan.

    Before Moroccan Roll jumps in and states that it was all a conspiracy to go to war etc, 9/11 could never be left unanswered. If those cunts, Bush and Blair, had not taken us into the Iraq war, the will (materially, physically and morally) of most of the international community would have been behind the war and the war against the Taliban COULD have been won. Sure, there may have been a small insurgent issue but not on the scale that we have now. Because of Iraq, hardly any country wants to have their hands bathed in association with the same blood as Bush/Blair.

    The combined international concentration of minds on Afghanistan could have been a success .. but Bush/Blair wanted a headnote in history. Well, they have it now. How I just wish they could be charged for war crimes!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still fail to see how anything this man has said should prevent him, and his group, from marching in the town. Either we believe that man should be free to demonstrate peacefully or we don't. Just because we don't agree with his motives or message isn't a reason to stop him.

    Flash had it correct, nothing stop others also demonstrating, peacefully, their disagreement with him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    I still fail to see how anything this man has said should prevent him, and his group, from marching in the town. Either we believe that man should be free to demonstrate peacefully or we don't. Just because we don't agree with his motives or message isn't a reason to stop him.

    I agree with you. I was just trying to make the point that his desire to demonstrate is not based on some peace-loving, rational thought but is based on his hate of anyone who isn't a Muslim and, in particular, his brand of extremist Islam. But yes, he should be able to demonstrate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »

    Before Moroccan Roll jumps in and states that it was all a conspiracy to go to war etc, 9/11!

    The good news is that the majority of Americans no longer believe the ludicrous story that a jet liner could have made this hole ...sadly some still do ....


    approach.jpg



    pentagonhole.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The good news is that the majority of Americans no longer believe the ludicrous story that a jet liner could have made this hole ...sadly some still do ....


    approach.jpg



    pentagonhole.jpg

    Including all the people who witnessed it crash into the Pentagon?

    It's true what was said when people stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing, they believe in everything
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suggest you do some research into the said witnesses.
    The most reliable ones ...the police and Pentagon security people ...tell a story completely at odds with the official one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On topic please peeps
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just to say MR that hole isn't the entry hole it's the exit hole on the other side of the building.

    As I said though I'm looking forward to judgement day, and enjoying life. Let them march, I think the biggest censure of their actions would be to ignore them completely.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Just to say MR that hole isn't the entry hole it's the exit hole on the other side of the building.

    As I said though I'm looking forward to judgement day, and enjoying life. Let them march, I think the biggest censure of their actions would be to ignore them completely.

    Doesn't matter wether it's the entry or the exit ...a jet liner didn't do it and the majority of Americans now agree.
    Sorry James.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Before Moroccan Roll jumps in and states that it was all a conspiracy to go to war etc, 9/11 could never be left unanswered.

    Why do you think the answer to 9/11 was an invasion of Afghanistan ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do you think the answer to 9/11 was an invasion of Afghanistan ?

    Because the Taliban were harbouring Bin Laden and allowing him to use their land for planning and launching terror attacks. They were asked to hand him over and they refused.

    But we are off topic now so I won't comment any further within this thread.

    However, as for Moroccan Roll's comments, its nice to see his dope and absinthe addiction hasn't decreased over the festive season. He's so funny. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Because the Taliban were harbouring Bin Laden and allowing him to use their land for planning and launching terror attacks. They were asked to hand him over and they refused.

    But we are off topic now so I won't comment any further within this thread.

    However, as for Moroccan Roll's comments, its nice to see his dope and absinthe addiction hasn't decreased over the festive season. He's so funny. :)

    Lets get some facts instead of propaganda in here ....the Taliban were in Wasghington six months before 9/11 and they refused a carpet of gold to protect a proposed pipeline from the Caspian sea through AFhganistan.
    They were told they woiuld get instead a carpet of bombs ...they were told in no uncertain terms they would be bombed back to the stone age instead.

    The terror training camps you swallowed so easily ...think back to the images you were presented with and accepted as a global threat ...they were a few rolls of barbed wire and some rusty monkey bars.
    This is where people had trained for years in their dreams of overthrowing the likes of the Saudi royals ...the Israelis even ...they had been there years and were never considered a threat to the west.

    When the propaganda machine went into action the monkey bars and barbed wire were transformed into the picture below.


    Were you gullible enough at the time ...and maybe even now ...to believe the bollox in the picture below?
    By the way ...the only thing I'm addicted to is nicotine:D


    bullshitcaves-1.gif
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That picture was hammered into our minds within days of 9/11.
    Obviously pre-prepared bollox.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    right, seriously, start a new thread if people want to but from now on posts should relate directly to this particular protest
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Agreed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sky News

    Even mentions plans to ban the group
    Muslim group Islam4UK has cancelled controversial plans to hold an anti-war march through Wootton Bassett - the town which honours repatriated British soldiers.

    The Islamic organisation's proposals had received widespread criticism, with Prime Minister Gordon Brown condemning the proposed demonstration as "abhorrent and offensive."

    MPs had urged local authorities and the Home Secretary Alan Johnson to step in to prevent the procession in the Wiltshire town.

    And more than 185,000 people signed up to a Facebook page opposing the plans.

    Islam4UK said the march was aimed at highlighting the plight of Muslims in Afghanistan and it said it had done this "successfully".

    In a statement, leader Anjem Choudary also said the group had engaged with thousands of ordinary people through its website and via blogs, phone calls and emails on the reality of the conflict.

    But it added: "We at Islam4UK have decided, after consultation with others, including our Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, that no more could be achieved even if a procession were to take place in Wootton Bassett.

    "And in light of this we would like to announce today that there will no longer be a procession through this market town."

    It added: "This does not mean that we will remain silent on the atrocities being committed in Afghanistan under the guise of fighting for freedom and democracy.

    "And it also does not mean that we will not continue to highlight the true cost of this war against Islam and Muslims called fighting terrorism."

    Sky's home affairs correspondent Mark White said: "They've got a tremendous amount of publicity out of this.

    "Of course, it caused a great deal of consternation when it was announced a couple of weeks back that this group was planning to march through Wootton Bassett.

    "Anjem Choudary has told me that his group has now decided it will not march through the town.

    "This will be a great relief for the town's people who did not want to see this march go ahead and felt there could be a confrontation if Anjem Choudary and his followers had decided to carry out this protest."

    North Wiltshire MP James Gray spoke out against the group's proposals when they were first announced.

    Mr Gray said he was "very glad" Islam4UK had abandoned its plans, and said Mr Choudary's actions had now been proven to be a "media stunt".

    Islam4UK denied that members had planned to carry 500 empty coffins through the town.

    Meanwhile, there have been reports that Home Secretary Alan Johnson plans to ban the group as early as Monday.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, it's not official...
    Membership of Islamist group Islam4UK and al-Muhajiroun to become criminal offence punishable by up to 10 years' jail

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/12/islam4uk-banned-alan-johnson-islamist


    Does this mean it is now officially okay to ban people we don't like? Can we have the BNP next please? Or we're only doing this to the 'darkies'?
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