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pinkstinks

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Just heard about this from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8402628.stm

Taken from their website: www.pinkstinks.co.uk
PinkStinks is a campaign and social enterprise that challenges the culture of pink which invades every aspect of girls' lives.

This site is for parents and non parents alike, and aims to gather support, promote discussion and ultimately to mobilize that support to influence marketeers and the media about the importance of promoting positive gender roles to girls.

Research tells us that self-esteem amongst girls is at its lowest ever and we are asking WHY?

We believe that body image obsession is starting younger and younger, and that the seeds are sown during the pink stage, as young girls are taught the boundaries within which they will grow up, as well as narrow and damaging messages about what it is to be a girl.

My view is.... undecided :P

but swaying towards pinkstinks having a fair point. more about the toys designated for girls being to do with fashion, beauty and princesses/fairies rather than the actual colour pink.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think the colour is the problem but maybe what you said. I had pink things growing up yet I've never had an obsession with my body.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't tell my daughters... one threw a right paddy because we looked to buy her a blue coat when her sister had a pink
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i agree with the campaign.
    The day that i saw the BATTERIES in the early learning centre came in pink and blue, i was astounded.

    You even get pink lego now ffs.
    Since when was it ok to force gender stereotypes so early, and what is wrong with boys and girls having gender neutral toys
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with it too.

    There's nothing hardwired in girls that makes them like pink more - it's just from a tiny age they are surrounded with fluffy pink toys and t shirts saying "I'm a princess!" on them, which encourages them to think that's what girls should be like - silly, fluffy, vacuous.

    My six year old daughter really isn't in to all that stuff, because I never dressed her in pink or encouraged her to think that being a princess was a desirable career strategy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my daughter does have have a couple of pink bits of clothing. I dont actually think girls are very easy to buy for if youre not into pink and frilly or pink tracksuits.
    I tend to get a lot of her clothes from french places as theyre a lot less obsessed with pink over there
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I liked pink and dolls when I was younger but was also quite happy playing with footballs and on bikes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my daughter does have have a couple of pink bits of clothing. I dont actually think girls are very easy to buy for if youre not into pink and frilly or pink tracksuits.
    I tend to get a lot of her clothes from french places as theyre a lot less obsessed with pink over there

    Oh yeah mine does too, how cna you avoid it? But she's not obsessed with pink, and she isn't as yet showing signs of becoming ridiculously girly in her tastes. And she's not into Barbie or Bratz and things like that yet, she mainly likes to play with lego. But who knows, maybe it will get to her eventually.

    Obviously it's not the colour pink in itself which is objectionable, it's more the silly, fluffy, gender specific toys that concern me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the idea that because girls like pink and enjoy playing with Barbies means they have low self-esteem is insane. I'd be failing as a parent if I didn't let my daughter's play with dolls and if they grew up thinking that as girl they should stay at home and cook dinner for hubbie.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My little niece wants everything and anything to be pink...she loves pink! The same with alot of little girls who used to come in Early Learning when I worked there :yes:

    Tbh I'm not bothered if little girls want pink and boys blue then so be it, same if a little boy wants pink and girl want blue!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't help feeling some people are missing the point a bit here.

    No one suggests there is anything harmful about the colour pink, in itself.

    What is harmful is a culture that tells little girls that they should aspire to be princesses and footballers wives, and that being silly, vain, vacuous and empty headed is the best way to be because this is what men find attractive.

    The pink thing is just one symptom of that larger trend. Girls should be pretty and passive, and focus on making themselves beautiful. That's a bad message.

    I have my own anecdotal evidence of this. One year for christmas my mother bought my daughter a child's make up set, with nail varnish and eye shadow and lipstick in a plastic pink heart shaped case. She bought my little boy a plastic pretend tool set, with a hammer, screwdriver etc.

    Little girls don't naturally gravitate towards pink because it's hardwired into them to like it. It's caused by wider things that are going on in the culture around them. Of course there isn't anything harmful in itself about girls liking pink, but the day someone asks my daughter what she wants to be when she grows up, and she replies "famous", a little part of me will die inside!

    eta: so the point is, liking pink doesn't mean they have low self-esteem. It just means that swamping girls with pink fluffiness is the first step down the road toward making them obsessed with beauty and image above everything else, and that's bad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :eek:

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    Boys like mud and dirt and scooters and footballs and bikes!

    Girls like fluff and candy and flowers and jewels and sparkles.

    Christ almighty, that makes me want to vomit.

    The most disturbing one being - why is the word 'love' on the girls one and not the boys one? Are only girls interested in love? Are only boys interested in money? :confused:

    The thing is grace, little girls don't choose shit like that. It gets bought for them, and tells them what they ought to like, and so they do, and it's a cycle. No one, and especially not children, makes their choices in a vacuum.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    I can't help feeling some people are missing the point a bit here.

    No one suggests there is anything harmful about the colour pink, in itself.

    What is harmful is a culture that tells little girls that they should aspire to be princesses and footballers wives, and that being silly, vain, vacuous and empty headed is the best way to be because this is what men find attractive.

    The pink thing is just one symptom of that larger trend. Girls should be pretty and passive, and focus on making themselves beautiful. That's a bad message.

    I have my own anecdotal evidence of this. One year for christmas my mother bought my daughter a child's make up set, with nail varnish and eye shadow and lipstick in a plastic pink heart shaped case. She bought my little boy a plastic pretend tool set, with a hammer, screwdriver etc.

    Little girls don't naturally gravitate towards pink because it's hardwired into them to like it. It's caused by wider things that are going on in the culture around them. Of course there isn't anything harmful in itself about girls liking pink, but the day someone asks my daughter what she wants to be when she grows up, and she replies "famous", a little part of me will die inside!

    eta: so the point is, liking pink doesn't mean they have low self-esteem. It just means that swamping girls with pink fluffiness is the first step down the road toward making them obsessed with beauty and image above everything else, and that's bad.

    Is it? There's as much evidence that these things are hardwired as not. I also think that you and pinksticks are missing the point - its the duty of parents to help children fulfil their potential, pinkness and playing with dolls doesnt mean that at other times we haven't sat with my daughters and talk them to read and write and one wants to become a scientist (my wife's fault for giving her a distorted view of what scientists do). My eight year old nephew is divided between being a train driver and a footballer - perhaps we should take that football off him and drive him towards a more realistic career (I could get him a suit and tie for Christmas, together with a calculator and hope it encourages him towards accountancy)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it? There's as much evidence that these things are hardwired as not. I also think that you and pinksticks are missing the point - its the duty of parents to help children fulfil their potential, pinkness and playing with dolls doesnt mean that at other times we haven't sat with my daughters and talk them to read and write and one wants to become a scientist (my wife's fault for giving her a distorted view of what scientists do). My eight year old nephew is divided between being a train driver and a footballer - perhaps we should take that football off him and drive him towards a more realistic career (I could get him a suit and tie for Christmas, together with a calculator and hope it encourages him towards accountancy)

    Really? You think there might be some genetic or evolutionary explanation for girls liking pink? Fascinating, I'd love to see evidence of that.

    I agree about the importance of parents encouraging their children to fulfil their potential. The thing that worries me is the wider cultural influences that pull in the opposite direction, and the fluffy pink footballer's wife model of the good life that many young girls seem to be buying into is really damaging.

    I'm not denying that there are similar negative influences directed at boys. But at least they are encouraged to be footballers and to have their own identities and careers, rather than to marry someone rich and famous, or strip for playboy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    Really? You think there might be some genetic or evolutionary explanation for girls liking pink? Fascinating, I'd love to see evidence of that.

    I agree about the importance of parents encouraging their children to fulfil their potential. The thing that worries me is the wider cultural influences that pull in the opposite direction, and the fluffy pink footballer's wife model of the good life that many young girls seem to be buying into is really damaging.

    I'm not denying that there are similar negative influences directed at boys. But at least they are encouraged to be footballers and to have their own identities and careers, rather than to marry someone rich and famous, or strip for playboy.

    As you pointed out it's not about pink, but being attractive and stylish and the evolutionary reason is that women wanted to attract a strong mate who would be able to protect them (especially when pregnant) and their offspring.

    I'm also just don't recongise this world you paint of girls being encouraged to marry someone rich and famous or strip for playboy, certainly none of the parents of children I know are encouraging them to do this, nor the schools and it's a bit of leap because girls enjoy dressing up Barbie that this stops their entire intellectual and social development or this is the only thing in their life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't say parents are doing that.

    I said society is in general. Our culture promotes that as one of the most valuable and successful lifestyle choices. And if you don't think that's true, you must walk around with your eyes closed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    I didn't say parents are doing that.

    I said society is in general. Our culture promotes that as one of the most valuable and successful lifestyle choices. And if you don't think that's true, you must walk around with your eyes closed.

    You can point out lots of possible bits of evidence, but none of it comes together in a conclusive picture or indeed any picture at all. Given that parents and school are the most pivotal influences in a child's life it seems that they would need to actively promote it - which they don't. Nor does it seem to me does children's media. It seems a misconcieved campaign, which won't do any harm but won't make any difference and will be ignored by the vast majority of parents (including many Mums and Dads of women who go onto to become lawyers, scientists and accountants)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem to me is the reduction in the availability of gender-neutral toys. Mind you, I think this is probably a good thing, all we need to do now is to get irons, vacuum cleaners and washing machines made in pink.

    anyway, when toy shopping, I discovered this. Is this really appropriate?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The biggest issue I have with that Mr Gay, is that it's just piss poor...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://ts-si.org/component/content/article/2464.html

    hope this works - scientific research
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK wrote: »
    The biggest issue I have with that Mr Gay, is that it's just piss poor...

    There is that, but the big pink columns with streaks of white running down them were what most caught my eye.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree that most toys aimed at young girls are kind of fluffy and vapid, but don't think we really need a campaign to balance it out. Isn't it called parenting?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I parent as best I can, but I think the pink stuff is way too in your face
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know it's not actually about whether or not girls naturally like pink, but if anyones interested, I once read some research on this. It was done cross-culturally and historically and found that there was no natural preference for girls liking pink, and in fact in 18th/19th century England young girls were dressed in blue and young boys dressed in pink.
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