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whos the dad?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
my friend has recently just had a child and she doesnt know who the dad is there is 2 possabilities.

one of them wants to find out if they are the dad but my friend want allow him to because she thinks they are ok just them two. but i dont agree not one bit she asks me wat i think should i tell her the truth?? that i dont think she has the right to play god with her childs life??

the guy who wants to find out would be a great dad.

and wat legall rights does he have??

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    none, unless shes asking them for money for maintenance, and then they could insist on a dna test
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know nothing, but I'm very much under the impression that if he had a strong enough case, he could apply to the court, where a DNA test could(would) be ordered...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Remember this isn't just a matter of choice for the mum. Legally, she must put the name of the father on the birth certificate. If she gets it wrong, and the real father has any hereditary health conditions, she is doing a real and lasting disservice to the child, some of which may only impact later in life.

    In my view, if she intends to keep the child and cares for its future, she has a moral obligation to find out who the father is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As this is more of a legal question I'm going to move this thread in to the Home, Law & Money forum :)
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Hey, TheSite's article on birth father's rights may well answer quite a few of your questions. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Remember this isn't just a matter of choice for the mum. Legally, she must put the name of the father on the birth certificate.

    Er, no- one person can't put another's name on the form, it's not up to her. It was up to the two guys involved to have been a bit more responsible about who they put their dicks into, in full knowledge that it might result in a child. If the relationship wasn't going to be the sort where they could go to the registry office together then it was the man's responsibility to put something on the end of his knob. He doesn't know if he has a child- his fault! Any problems that the child has as a result of it- his fault! She knows who the mother of her child is and will fill that motherly role, everything else is his responsibility surely? Why blame her?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kat - i always thought it was a shared responsibility? obviously both parents want what is in the best interests of the child so one would assume that both parents would make inroads into making sure they knew who the actual father was, rather than the one who is more convenient in relationship terms for the mother. maybe i have misread the situation though. if there are questions over the father then he should have some right to try and find out if he is actually the father i would have thought.

    some people are very quick to say how it's a man's responsibility to look after a child he has fathered, but then say it's a woman's right to say who can and can't see her child. surely if the responsibility is shared then the ownership should be as well? yet really it is up to the mother, if she wants the father to be part of the childs life and pay maintenence, or if she wants to cut him out. i think legally she is allowed to do this, but morally? unless the father is completely unfit i would argue the childs best interests are served by allowing both parents to play a role.

    perhaps this is idealistic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes, the mother cannot put the fathers name on a birth certificate unless he is present (i think if your married this does not apply). yes everyone should have thought about contraception-including the mother. however now a child is involved, theres no point in pointing the finger of blame on anyone. i think every man who fathers a child needs to support them (both finacially and emotionallly) and i think that preventing this (unless he is violent, abusive, etc etc) is morally wrong, and the child could grow up resenting the mother. she needs to think very carefully and put her child before herself. i think this man needs to seek legal representation, request a dna test, and if he is the father step up and be there. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    It was up to the two guys involved to have been a bit more responsible about who they put their dicks into, in full knowledge that it might result in a child.

    Oh i didn't know she was raped. Only way i can think of absolving her of not having a choice who's dick goes into her.
    If the relationship wasn't going to be the sort where they could go to the registry office together then it was the man's responsibility to put something on the end of his knob.

    Ah right so women need to ask men if they're prepared to go to the registry office before they have a shag ? Don't think that happens much.

    Aren't women allowed to buy condoms now and say no if there's no protection or have you just time travelled from the 50's ?
    He doesn't know if he has a child- his fault!

    Did you actually read the OPs post ? He wants to know if he's the father, the mother is refusing a DNA test how exactly is that 'his fault' ?
    Any problems that the child has as a result of it- his fault!


    See above.
    Why blame her?

    Because she's being a twat and using the child as ammo to get at him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Er, no- one person can't put another's name on the form, it's not up to her. It was up to the two guys involved to have been a bit more responsible about who they put their dicks into, in full knowledge that it might result in a child. If the relationship wasn't going to be the sort where they could go to the registry office together then it was the man's responsibility to put something on the end of his knob. He doesn't know if he has a child- his fault! Any problems that the child has as a result of it- his fault! She knows who the mother of her child is and will fill that motherly role, everything else is his responsibility surely?

    How exactly is this all his fault?
    Why blame her?

    Because - it's friggin' obvious really - she's refusing him the opportunity to discover whether he has fathered a child. You're spouting off this nasty, bitter drivel about how it's entirely down to the man, but seem completely oblivious to the fact that he may have had no idea at the time the lass was sleeping with more than one guy, or that the guy is wanting to take responsibility for his actions, but is being - wrongly - refused the ability to ascertain whether the child is his, and make provision for the future of the child.

    Don't let your own life-experiences cloud the ability to see the reality of a different situation. From the sounds of the post, the guy really is trying to do right here, whilst the other party involved in *all* aspects of the conception is denying this.

    Reverse the roles, and put a slight twist on it - how would you feel if the other parent of your child stopped you from having any involvement with the child?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Er, no- one person can't put another's name on the form, it's not up to her. It was up to the two guys involved to have been a bit more responsible about who they put their dicks into, in full knowledge that it might result in a child. If the relationship wasn't going to be the sort where they could go to the registry office together then it was the man's responsibility to put something on the end of his knob. He doesn't know if he has a child- his fault! Any problems that the child has as a result of it- his fault! She knows who the mother of her child is and will fill that motherly role, everything else is his responsibility surely? Why blame her?
    You can't swing from one extreme to the other, it's just as wrong. Obviously the child is responsibility of both parents. To automatically assume it's the man's fault is just ridiculous and is the kind of attitude that plagues decent, victimised fathers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    theres no "fault", she just obviously doesnt want either of these guys to play daddy to her baby. If she gets the DNA test then she pretty much has to doesnt she.
    If a guy wants to make sure that any child he has, he has a proper relationship with, then he needs to make sure that he saves unprotected sex for serious commited relationships, so yeah, its his fault in that way.
    Its not as if the woman is asking anything from the guys
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have always loved thread like this, there is no right answer - there are plenty of wrong ones though and I can see several here.

    Both sexual partners have a responsibility to use contraception, so you cannot blame one or the other.

    As a father, it saddens me that the male here isn't being given an option to step up to that role - not because he violent or a risk to mother or child but purely on the mother's choice. A selfish view.

    Of course, that assumes that no important details have been left out - like both "fathers" are drunken violent wasters...

    Perhaps one day the child will make their own choice, and track down the father themselves.

    Surprised that no-one seems to be considering the child in this thread...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    theres no "fault", she just obviously doesnt want either of these guys to play daddy to her baby. If she gets the DNA test then she pretty much has to doesnt she.

    Damned straight. And you know what? From what's been said in the first post, this isn't about the mothers wants. That child has a father. One of the two possibilities is standing up, and wanting to take responsibility for the actions he chose to engage in. The "equal rights" so many women have harped on about for so many years work in both directions, picking and choosing when to ignore them isn't the basis of good parenting.
    If a guy wants to make sure that any child he has, he has a proper relationship with, then he needs to make sure that he saves unprotected sex for serious commited relationships, so yeah, its his fault in that way.

    Yep, he could've been safer. But it is the woman who decided to go full-term with what is now a living, human being. That child has a right to the parental input from a father who is willing to stand up to the long-term impact from that night.
    Its not as if the woman is asking anything from the guys

    Oh, so that makes it alright? How about if the father came and took the child, and asked nothing from the mother. Should she expect to sit there with no recourse in the matter?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well thats different because shes had considerably more input and pain into making that child than a guy just shooting his load
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And why has the man "shooting his load" had considerably less input?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What I hate about situations like this is every1 seems to forget the child,the mother doesnt want anything to do with the father so the child loses out.
    It doesnt really matter how the child was conceived,it takes 2 to make a baby and at the end of the day every1 deserves to know where they came from!
    To me the mother is selfish for not wanting to know the truth and the only person they are hurting is there own child.
    I just dont get it what do you tell the kid when they've growing up? I dont know who your dad is cause I slept with 2 guys but didnt wanna know the truth cause I didnt want anything to do with them!
    In reality the guy doesnt want anything to do with the mother either but does wannabe there for his child!
    But at the end of the day mothers can and do play judge and jury to there own childs life.
    If the mother doesnt want the father involved rightly or wrongly they have the power to decide.but at the end of the day it's the child that loses out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Being a good mum is putting your childs needs before your own.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And why has the man "shooting his load" had considerably less input?

    sorry did you not do biology at school? Pregnancy and birth is a little bit more hardcore an input than an ejaculation

    I dont think its a great idea for a child to never know their father for the most cases, and if it was my friend who thought it might be his kid id support him trying to find out, but he really is unlikely to get far unless hes got the woman on side.
    Thats one reason men shouldnt be so blasé about contraception. Theres going to be plenty of women who would trick someone into getting them pg, and then theyre either screwed for money for the next 18years, or have a kid theyre not allowed to be involved with. Lose/lose just for the chance to go bareback one time.
    I dont see how the law could be any different without causing even more problems in other areas though
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i wonder if he suggested to her that if its his kid then he would pay maintenence, then maybe she might be more amenable to the idea of a DNA test? Worth a shot if hes serious about it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with suzy in some ways, there is no getting away from the fact that she is the childs mother and ultimately though one would hope she would make inroads into being reasonable too (as its in the best interests of her child so long as the father isnt abusive / violent / really negative influence himself), he needs to take one for the sake of his kid and try his best to work out a reasonable relationship with her to get input into the childs life.

    I think the court can order you to pay maintenence / her to allow access. Although at present that's more of a symobolic thing as there is no legal recourse against a mother who defies a court order like that. The only way to win in the present state of legislation is live by her rules, or apply for custody if you can prove she is an unfit mother.

    I think it's one of the laws that will be revisited in the next 50 years but really the amount of time it takes to get a law through - it will have to have political pressure on the issue for years before a party gets through with a mandate to change the law in the area.

    It may be the case that a law would order a paternity test if the paternity wasn't definite. But I expect it would be an extremely costly thing to follow up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry did you not do biology at school? Pregnancy and birth is a little bit more hardcore an input than an ejaculation

    Sorry, did you not to English at School? ;) You're missing the point.

    Q: Why has the man "shooting his load" had considerably less input?

    A: Because the woman failed to tell him she was pregnant, went it alone, and is now refusing to let him ascertain the paternity of the child.

    I wasn't attempting to imply that pregnancy and/or giving birth took the same amount of effort as the male deposit needed for that pregnancy. Rather I was attempting to highlight exactly why the male has only had the input of shooting his load.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    A: Because the woman failed to tell him she was pregnant, went it alone, and is now refusing to let him ascertain the paternity of the child.

    Or, he didn't know the woman he shot his load in to well enough to know whether she became pregnant as a result of it, clever boy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Or, he didn't know the woman he shot his load in to well enough to know whether she became pregnant as a result of it, clever boy.

    Is he not still there, attempting to determine the paternity?
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