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"Fatism"; Greed, Personal Responsibility or Descrimination?

Found this in the Sunday Times;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india_knight/article6888918.ece

While it's fairly obvious that the writer takes an extreme view on the subject, I find myself agreeing with a lot of the things she has written.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think India Knight's view is overly extreme; her main points are that people should exercise some self-control and take responsibility for their actions, and she's right to say it!

    Seventh post down on the comments exemplifies how many people dislike taking responsibility:

    "E. F. wrote:
    Nothing like a convert to pontificate about weighty matters such as these, eh? I'm glad you managed to lose weight, India; however that doesn't give you the right to patronise those who may not have your good luck in that particular field, not to mention money to spend.
    There are all kinds of reasons why people end up the way they are, but ranting like this is not going to help anybody. For pity's sake, compassion seems to have gone out of the window altogether."

    The poster makes it sound like Knight only lost weight due to luck and spending money. Although she doesn't state what weight she lost and how, she claims she used to be bigger and has now slimmed down, so it figures she must have lost some of this weight the one and only (hard) way - by eating less and moving more.

    Maybe she comes across as slightly smug but she has already had a taste of what it's like to be larger, and also acknowledges the emotional reasons behind overeating and that it's not just a case of greed, so I think she has got a relatively balanced view.

    The American campaign group 'Size Acceptance Movement' are just making excuses - while it's true people should be accepting of others who can't change the way they are (eg. have a particular skin colour or physical disability etc), food intake can be controlled to an extent. The SAM website says "Obesity is not a disease" and to "love your body, it's the only one you have". http://www.size-acceptance.org/activism.html Yet obesity can increase the likelihood of developing diseases such as diabetes, respiratory problems or arthritis. So knowing you're obese while doing nothing about it is actually harming your body, not loving it... :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i agree with her as well. I accept in some cases there are other reasons why people are fat, thyroid conditions as an example, but these are far from the norm, and i do believe a large percentage of it is just eating too much, and not doing enough exercise. I hate all these fat and proud people, to me thats just as dangerous as pro ana sites, we shouldn't be encouraging people to beleive its ok to be obese. But im big into fattism so what would i know lol
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure it has to be either/or, with respect to the question you raised in your title.

    Yes, it's about personal responsibility; if you're obese, then to a large extent, it's your own fault.

    But couldn't it also be the case that you might be discriminated against on account of your weight? Surely it isn't the case that any abuse you receive from twattish people that is based on things you could have controlled is fine, whereas discrimination based on race, gender and religion is bad?

    I think discrimination is bad, whatever the target is, and I'm sure fat people get lots of abuse that is simply unacceptable. If people are throwing stuff at you and shouting names at you in the street because you're obese, I don't think you've forfeited your right to complain about it because it's your fault you're fat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure I saw the point of the article; someone shouldn't be have to suffer abuse because their fat. I don't really draw distinction between been beaten to a pulp because you're fat or because you're black - I don't see how your ability to change your weight negates anything. The story about the fat kids been taken away from their parents seemed sketchy, and just thrown in there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are various reasons why people become obese. Sometimes it can be linked to other health conditions, or to another disability.

    I like to think of myself as being fat and proud... I'm not massively obese, but just outside my BMI. I love curvy women and cuddly men. I don't see why people have an issue with it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Here's my big secret dieting tip that'll help you shed pounds in weeks with nearly NO WORK on your part:

    Eat until you're no longer hungry, not until your stuffed. Avoid fast food. Eat meat with one meal a day and don't have it be your largest portion.


    if that doesn't work I suggest finding a soup spoon with a wooden handle and sticking it down your throat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if that doesn't work I suggest finding a soup spoon with a wooden handle and sticking it down your throat.

    thats HILARIOUS!

    not :yeees: :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thats HILARIOUS!

    not :yeees: :rolleyes:

    not to mention effective. Fastest way to cure a stomach ache... ok, maybe that was in poor taste.


    Honestly though, why the obsession with people being over weight? Yes, some people it's because they don't eat right, and yes some people it's because of they're genetics, or glands, or whatever else. Why is someone's personal issues with weight suddenly such a topic for public debate?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If I were so fat that people pointed at me in the street laughing, or discriminated against me, I'd be more concerned with losing weight instead of campaigning to turn those people into criminals.

    Another example of the nation's "blame everyone but yourself" attitude. If you can't fix your own problem, make everyone else feel bad about it. I'm afraid it isn't washing with me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    If I were so fat that people pointed at me in the street laughing, or discriminated against me, I'd be more concerned with losing weight instead of campaigning to turn those people into criminals.

    Another example of the nation's "blame everyone but yourself" attitude. If you can't fix your own problem, make everyone else feel bad about it. I'm afraid it isn't washing with me.

    That's pretty much where I stand on it.

    You can't change the colour of your skin, your height, looks etc. and so people taking the piss out you for something you can't help is not on.

    However, if I get a ridiculous haircut, something well within my sphere of control, and people take the piss, I don't think "Hate crime!", I think that I've brought it upon myself and whilst being a bit harsh, is something that is ultimately my choice and thus I myself should have to deal with the consequences.

    Personal choice, responsibility? Nah, hate crime innit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't a hate crime attacking someone for being a member of a particular group? The murder of someone dressed as a goth was considered a hate crime, because that person was attacked for what they are, rather than as an individual. And it is an important distinction in terms of criminal justice, because someone who has committed a hate crime will still have to deal with members of the group they attacked after they have served their punishment. That requires a different type of rehabilitation than someone who has attacked someone on a personal level. If your motivation to attack someone is what they are rather than who they are or what they've done, then I would consider that to be a hate crime. I couldn't care less whether it's because of skin colour, whether it's what you happen to be wearing, or whether it's because you're a fan of cake. But I don't consider taking the piss out of someone to be a crime, so whether it's a hate crime or not is kinda irrelevant, unless it crosses the line into harrassment or bullying.

    Also just out of interest, has anyone else noticed that a lot of former fatties tend to be the ones that are the least sympathetic to other people who are overweight (particularly if they seem to be happy and overweight)?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm all for personal responsibility. But personal responsibility cuts both ways.

    The cunts who shout abuse at people in the street for being overweight seriously need to exercise some control over their actions and behave like normal, reasonable members of society. Being responsible is not just about how you treat yourself, but how you treat others. If you're abusing people for being overweight then you're a fucking prick. Whether or not it's a 'hate crime' is neither here nor there.

    Sure, a few eccentric overweight people are trying to classify 'fatism' as a form of discrimination on a par with racism. Most sensible overweight people aren't. Nonetheless, I'm sure they would prefer it if people didn't throw shit at them in the street or call them names, you know? Just because you're responsible for your predicament, doesn't change the fact that you're a human being deserving of respect, same as everyone else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also just out of interest, has anyone else noticed that a lot of former fatties tend to be the ones that are the least sympathetic to other people who are overweight (particularly if they seem to be happy and overweight)?

    Not just fatties. The most militant anti-smokers are more often than not former smokers themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not just fatties. The most militant anti-smokers are more often than not former smokers themselves.

    Born-again Christians, always more insufferable. Homophobes are often closet gays. The examples are endless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not just fatties. The most militant anti-smokers are more often than not former smokers themselves.

    :yes: In fact the only thing worse than a fat person is a fat smoker...

    *runs*

    Hey I used to be one! Okay in all seriousness I think people need to take some responsibility, you can't blame ignorance anymore except child obesity, which is one of the saddest things on this earth because the parents are depriving their kids of a normal full life....just another form of domestic violence imo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    I'm all for personal responsibility. But personal responsibility cuts both ways.

    The cunts who shout abuse at people in the street for being overweight seriously need to exercise some control over their actions and behave like normal, reasonable members of society. Being responsible is not just about how you treat yourself, but how you treat others. If you're abusing people for being overweight then you're a fucking prick. Whether or not it's a 'hate crime' is neither here nor there.

    Sure, a few eccentric overweight people are trying to classify 'fatism' as a form of discrimination on a par with racism. Most sensible overweight people aren't. Nonetheless, I'm sure they would prefer it if people didn't throw shit at them in the street or call them names, you know? Just because you're responsible for your predicament, doesn't change the fact that you're a human being deserving of respect, same as everyone else.



    I'm not disagreeing with you at all, people who shout abuse at people in the street are scum, no doubt about it. But the idea of giving people special treatment because of something they've done to themselves annoys me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jamelia wrote: »
    I'm all for personal responsibility. But personal responsibility cuts both ways.

    The cunts who shout abuse at people in the street for being overweight seriously need to exercise some control over their actions and behave like normal, reasonable members of society. Being responsible is not just about how you treat yourself, but how you treat others. If you're abusing people for being overweight then you're a fucking prick. Whether or not it's a 'hate crime' is neither here nor there.

    Sure, a few eccentric overweight people are trying to classify 'fatism' as a form of discrimination on a par with racism. Most sensible overweight people aren't. Nonetheless, I'm sure they would prefer it if people didn't throw shit at them in the street or call them names, you know? Just because you're responsible for your predicament, doesn't change the fact that you're a human being deserving of respect, same as everyone else.

    agreed
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with you at all, people who shout abuse at people in the street are scum, no doubt about it. But the idea of giving people special treatment because of something they've done to themselves annoys me.

    I don't think anyone thinks they should have special treatment, even the people campaigning to have fatism recognised as a form of discrimination. They should have equal treatment, which means, among other things, protection from abuse from scumbags.

    So I think the article's pretty pointless. Yes, some people are fat, and it's probably their fault. Yes, some people are probably being a bit extreme to put it up there with racism and homophobia on the hate crime scale.

    Nonetheless, my friend who used to be 21 stone and has now lost half her body weight, told me of the daily abuse she received from strangers. Strangers who probably wouldn't have considered calling me a paki. Weird how ostensibly reasonable people think it's ok to abuse you, if you might be responsible for your predicament.
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