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Botched lethal injection

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Did any of you read this :

"Ohio is to try again to execute a man convicted of murder after his death by lethal injection was botched earlier this week when technicians spent two hours in a futile hunt for a vein able to take a needle.

At one point, Romell Broom, who was convicted of rape and murder of a teenage girl 25 years ago, tried to help prison officers find a suitable vein by moving around and flexing his muscles. The prison governor later thanked him for his cooperation."


"Broom's legal team has now asked Ohio's supreme court to cancel the execution but state officials today said they will attempt it again next week."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/17/ohio-death-penalty-lethal-injection

Apart from the obscenity of capital punishment, I am more horrified that they are going to try and kill him again!!! :shocking:
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just really really grim.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just really really grim.

    Pretty much sums it up.

    This reminds me of a story of a person who survived the electric chair. He was just shocked again the next week I think. If I can find the story, I'll post the link.
    ETA: Found it
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Francis
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pretty much sums it up.

    This reminds me of a story of a person who survived the electric chair. He was just shocked again the next week I think. If I can find the story, I'll post the link.

    I guess I'd rather hang myself on my own tongue then be shocked again after I survived the chair. horrible.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,265 Incredible Poster
    Very grim.

    I think being nearly killed once by lethal injection would be enough to set anyone on the straight and narrow for life really!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just really really grim.


    I think capital punishment is a viable solution personally, however RE the OP, i'm more shocked about the guy trying to help them find a vein to kill him. :crazyeyes
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pretty much sums it up.

    This reminds me of a story of a person who survived the electric chair. He was just shocked again the next week I think. If I can find the story, I'll post the link.
    ETA: Found it
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Francis
    Wow. I couldn't imagine being told that at age 16.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think if you can survive it, you should live tbh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think if you can survive it, you should live tbh.

    It's how it used to work in the UK. If you survived your execution it was considered a sign from God and you were pardoned.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man, back in the good-ol-days, when capital punishment was to hang someone, if the rope broke they got a reprieve. Seems to me like this guy is getting a bum deal. Too bad he didn't rape and then murder a girl back in the 1800's :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    Wow. I couldn't imagine being told that at age 16.

    If I was him I'd play dead, and when the guard came to unfasten me, I'd be "BOO" in his face. Man, that would at least give me some satisfaction out of being grilled.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Disgusting but not surprising from a suppossedly civilised nation that still thinks it is okay for the State to kill a human being.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I have to say, I think capital punishment is disgusting and I also think that this is another example of the barbaric penal system utilised in the US.

    I think that the fact he tried to help the prison officer find a vein proves that he is remorseful for his crime.

    Of course, it is truly horrible what the criminal did, but to execute him after this is, quite frankly, madness, and in my opinion, pure evil.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HunnyPot wrote: »
    I think that the fact he tried to help the prison officer find a vein proves that he is remorseful for his crime.

    I think it shows that he just wanted it to be over with, he must have been subject to enormous emotional distress while they were trying to find a vein to end his life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My trouble is that I'm intellectually against the death penalty, then I think of the fourteen year old he raped and murdered and find I don't give a fuck about his suffering
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My trouble is that I'm intellectually against the death penalty, then I think of the fourteen year old he raped and murdered and find I don't give a fuck about his suffering

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My trouble is that I'm intellectually against the death penalty, then I think of the fourteen year old he raped and murdered and find I don't give a fuck about his suffering

    Exactly. No matter what your particular feelings are on the death penalty I think most people would agree that he's a scumbag, pretty soon he'll be a dead scumbag, and I'm going to sleep a little better knowing he got what was coming to him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Disgusting but not surprising from a suppossedly civilised nation that still thinks it is okay for the State to kill a human being.

    What is your rational for believing that it is wrong for the State to execute a citizen?

    I ask because it seems to me whenever there is a debate about the death penalty it usually revolves around how effective of a deterrent it is, whether it's cruel and unusual punishment, whether or not the legal system is accurate enough to warrant executing someone who could possibly be innocent, etc. It isn't very often that someone addresses what seems to me to be the fundamental question behind the death penalty which is 'does the state have the right to execute it's citizens if they have committed a serious crime'? I have to admit that while I don't support the death penalty I do believe the state possesses that right, but I believe that largely due to the fact that (so far) I haven't found anyone who can give a compelling argument to the contrary...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is your rational for believing that it is wrong for the State to execute a citizen?



    I don't know what Aladdin's is, I can guess it'll be because he's against state-sanctioned murder.

    I personally disagree with the death penalty for 2 reasons. Firstly, it costs more to put someone to death than it does to lock them away until they die. Secondly, why give someone who has comitted the most disgusting of crimes an "out"? I'd much rather see them rotting away in a small cell until they die. At least then they go out with a whimper and not a bang.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is your rational for believing that it is wrong for the State to execute a citizen?

    I ask because it seems to me whenever there is a debate about the death penalty it usually revolves around how effective of a deterrent it is, whether it's cruel and unusual punishment, whether or not the legal system is accurate enough to warrant executing someone who could possibly be innocent, etc. It isn't very often that someone addresses what seems to me to be the fundamental question behind the death penalty which is 'does the state have the right to execute it's citizens if they have committed a serious crime'? I have to admit that while I don't support the death penalty I do believe the state possesses that right, but I believe that largely due to the fact that (so far) I haven't found anyone who can give a compelling argument to the contrary...
    Basically nobody has the right to end a human life. And even if somebody is found guilty of killing a human being, the death penalty is never the answer. In fact, a State that has a system in place to willingly extinguish a human life is every single bit as despicable, wrong and odious as the person being executed. Often, even more so than the condemned.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's a very hard one, i personally have very mixed views to be honest and my opinion on this is pretty much the same as Flashman's Ghost.
    I don't know that i would want to live in a place where such hypocrisy takes place. It's wrong to kill, and because you did the wrong thing we're going to punish you by killing you.
    But then on the other hand, i don't want to live in a place where such brutes are allowed to roam the streets a few years after they're convicted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to admit that while I don't support the death penalty I do believe the state possesses that right, but I believe that largely due to the fact that (so far) I haven't found anyone who can give a compelling argument to the contrary...

    You believe something because you've never heard an argument to the contrary? Don't people generally believe something because they support an argument for it? I think most people would have the starting point that it is wrong to kill someone without a good reason, and there's absolutely no reason why this should be any different for a government than an individual. The one thing I find strange about American public opinion is that there is always strong opposition to anything that is seen as government power over its citizens, and yet there is strong opinion for allowing them the single biggest power you could ever give any government. The main difference between the death penalty and any other government action that may result in the death of people is that it is the only government action where the death of someone is the actual aim (despite what justification people might come up with after they've already made their mind up).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find it odd yet interesting how he was helping them to find a suitable vein!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sugar wrote: »
    But then on the other hand, i don't want to live in a place where such brutes are allowed to roam the streets a few years after they're convicted.
    You don't have to though. That's why life sentences without parole are for. And in America they already make extensive use of them.

    Death sentences serve no purpose whatsoever other than revenge, which should never be part of the justice process. It is an abomination every bit as despicable as the original murder it is meant to dish justice for.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You believe something because you've never heard an argument to the contrary? Don't people generally believe something because they support an argument for it?
    Yes. And I do support the argument for it. What I was conveying was that I'm open to alternative arguments which take a different approach to the issue and therefore draw different conclusions. Basically, I'm not beyond persuading.
    I think most people would have the starting point that it is wrong to kill someone without a good reason, and there's absolutely no reason why this should be any different for a government than an individual.
    The opperative words there being good reason. If we're looking beyond the fact that our justice system is tragically flawed and merely determining whether the state has the right to execute a criminal then the idea that they could do so if they had a good reason would affirm that right.

    The one thing I find strange about American public opinion is that there is always strong opposition to anything that is seen as government power over its citizens, and yet there is strong opinion for allowing them the single biggest power you could ever give any government. The main difference between the death penalty and any other government action that may result in the death of people is that it is the only government action where the death of someone is the actual aim (despite what justification people might come up with after they've already made their mind up).

    As a general rule American public opinion is in strong opposition to what they see as the federal governments power over private citizens, not so much state power. And states are the ones responcible for laws concerning the death penalty (unless it involves treason or a few other rare cases). That might help to explain the inconsistency in public opinion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Basically nobody has the right to end a human life.

    Ever?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ever?
    Except in cases when another human life is in danger of course. I have nothing against having to shoot a person deemed about to kill somebody else. And sometimes in war situations as well.

    But in the case of executions? When the prisoner is already safely behind bars? No, never. What's the point?

    The thing that really sickens me is the premediation. A carefully thought-out process by suppossedly humane and civilised people. Human beings, out of their own free will, building machines and creating chemical cocktails specifically designed to kill a human being. Teams of engineers designing and building a gas chamber; or a gallows; or an electric chair. Doctors (of all fucking people) researching the most efficient way to stop a heart, to extinguish a human life.

    That premeditation, that determination to end a human life is IMO an evil of unspeakable propotions- every bit as despicable, and sometimes even more so- than that committed by the condemned.

    I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime but I can only hope in the near future the entire human race will view the death penalty as a barbaric atrocity and banish it forever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes. And I do support the argument for it. What I was conveying was that I'm open to alternative arguments which take a different approach to the issue and therefore draw different conclusions. Basically, I'm not beyond persuading.
    What is your argument for it then?
    The opperative words there being good reason. If we're looking beyond the fact that our justice system is tragically flawed and merely determining whether the state has the right to execute a criminal then the idea that they could do so if they had a good reason would affirm that right.
    Absolutely. I'm unaware of a good reason, but in principle, it's no different from allowing killing by the state in a military situation. Obviously, it's far easier to think of a good reason in a military situation. Hell, you could even justify miscarriages of justice in the same terms as collateral damage if you could demonstrate enough of a benefit to the policy.
    As a general rule American public opinion is in strong opposition to what they see as the federal governments power over private citizens, not so much state power. And states are the ones responcible for laws concerning the death penalty (unless it involves treason or a few other rare cases). That might help to explain the inconsistency in public opinion.
    Well I think it's just the case in any country that people will have no problem with any government regulation that they approve of, but will try to portray any that they don't approve of as an interfering government. I don't think it's particularly unique to this issue in reality.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    to be honest, my thoughts reading this story is that united states has a very convoluted approach to execution and that its a disservice really to everyone involved. why is hanging not acceptable but injecting a toxic solution in to a man's vein that can cause the most terrible paralysis and suffocation scenarios ok? execution by hangman or similar has to be more humane than that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hanging when done properly is quick and pretty much instant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am against capital punishment myself, but adding to the debate, isn't it it easier to just shoot the convict (if it really has to be an execution)?
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