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Some advice to all BNP members out there...

SystemSystem Posts: 8,653 Staff Team
...pretend that you're not actually a member of the party. Not my advice, but that of Nick Griffin and his merry band of racist morons. Sky News tells us:

"British National Party members have been accused of being ashamed of themselves after their leader told them to hide their support for the controversial group. In an email to members and supporters, party chairman Nick Griffin told them to 'try and avoid' owning up to being BNP supporters when writing to complain about the treatment of two activists. An emailed newsletter, entitled 'Adam Walker needs our help', seeks donations and calls for letters of complaint in support of teachers Adam and Mark Walker who have stood as BNP candidates in elections."

Words fail me. Is Nick Griffin now secretly telling us he's ashamed to be a member of his own political party? Fucking daft cunt.

Over to you...
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Is Nick Griffin now secretly telling us he's ashamed to be a member of his own political party?

    It seems to me he is prudently asking his members to exercise their legal rights.

    "You have the right to remain silent. If you give up the right to remain silent, anything you say CAN AND WILL BE be used against you in a court of law."
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Words fail me. Is Nick Griffin now secretly telling us he's ashamed to be a member of his own political party? Fucking daft cunt.

    Of course he's not. This is just another pathetic attempt at portraying him and his supporters as the real oppressed minority in the country. It's particularly ironic because it appears to be a tactic he's borrowed from Islamic extremists. They'll spew their bile and bigotry in public, and then suddenly turn into this poor little oppressed minority when they recieve even a tiny percentage of it back.

    It's extremely difficult to get any BNP supporters to be forthcoming with their views in a debate. Far more common in my experience is for any criticism of their opinion to be accused of being the "PC brigade" or attacking them rather than their arguments. When I've debated the BNP mob, they seem to spend pretty much all of their time complaining about what they're "not allowed" to say and very little time actually saying anything. And when you dig a little deeper, what "not allowed to say" actually means isn't that they're prevented from saying it legally, just that they can't take the criticism that will come their way if they do say it. In other words, they want a soapbox to spout their bigotry, but don't want the debate that follows.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course he's not. This is just another pathetic attempt at portraying him and his supporters as the real oppressed minority in the country. It's particularly ironic because it appears to be a tactic he's borrowed from Islamic extremists. They'll spew their bile and bigotry in public, and then suddenly turn into this poor little oppressed minority when they recieve even a tiny percentage of it back.

    It's extremely difficult to get any BNP supporters to be forthcoming with their views in a debate. Far more common in my experience is for any criticism of their opinion to be accused of being the "PC brigade" or attacking them rather than their arguments. When I've debated the BNP mob, they seem to spend pretty much all of their time complaining about what they're "not allowed" to say and very little time actually saying anything. And when you dig a little deeper, what "not allowed to say" actually means isn't that they're prevented from saying it legally, just that they can't take the criticism that will come their way if they do say it. In other words, they want a soapbox to spout their bigotry, but don't want the debate that follows.

    I completely agree with this. I do know people who vote for the BNP and they love their "we're oppressed" act, where I live they even distribute leaflets at night wearing hoodies for "protection". I think because they believe what they're saying is the absolute truth they like feeling like they're an intelligent minority, which makes them feel important. And, as I'm with stupid said, it's a useful way of preventing debate. I think they've said this because winning in the recent elections has resulted in them taking part in more debates and having nothing true and useful to say, so they're going back to their old argument.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    pretend that you're not actually a member of the party.....................................................Words fail me. Is Nick Griffin now secretly telling us he's ashamed to be a member of his own political party? Fucking daft cunt.
    When someone votes Tory they're proud now, vote Labour they're loyal, vote Libdem it's the principle not about winning. Anyone who votes BNP and says so, sounds apologetic
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    When someone votes Tory they're proud now, vote Labour they're loyal, vote Libdem it's the principle not about winning. Anyone who votes BNP and says so, sounds apologetic

    Some might say . . . . .

    When someone votes ............................... they get what they deserve.

    Anyone who votes ............................... deserves what they get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    When someone votes Tory they're proud now, vote Labour they're loyal, vote Libdem it's the principle not about winning. Anyone who votes BNP and says so, sounds apologetic
    Maybe because they know it is a racist and xenophobic party and they don't have the guts to come out and say out loud they're a bit racist and xenophobes themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You call yourself the government
    But then BNP got a seat
    Who can you say "your need we will meet"
    When your all to busy
    Trying to ban hash
    And other unnecessary laws
    Just like that.

    You can call yourself the government
    But then BNP got a seat
    How can you care for this little country?
    When your racist acquaintances
    Fuck with our heads
    Tell us we're British
    And only we are allowed
    Into this country
    Full of fucked up prejudice

    C-A x
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Meanwhile the BBC is thinking of inviting Griffin to a future edition of Question Time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8240206.stm

    So showing a humanitarian appeal for the people of Palestine is not appropriate, but inviting a homophobic, xenophobic, racist cunt to the suppossedly respected panel of a current affairs programme is?

    Cunts :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What's the problem? The BBC have to be impartial. Previously, they could get away with not inviting him on because they don't generally invite any other unelected politicians on. But now he's elected, he should be up for consideration like anyone else. And I'd love him to be on there with Nigel Farage, just so he can't play the "we can't talk about immigration" card.

    The phrase "enough rope to hang himself" comes to mind. Trust me, he will be completely out of his depth. Not inviting him on will just allow him to play the discrimination card. Although I'd invite the other one on instead just to piss Griffin off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have no respect whatsoever for the BNP as a political party, because they cannot spell. I was reading their website, and many pieces written by their prominent politiciansused the wrong 'their, there or they're' or 'your or you're'. If spelling and grammar was used correctly, I think I would be more tolerant of their (somewhat ridiculous yet scary) beliefs, but that just tips the bucket over for me.

    At the moment, I don't really know whether to laugh or cry at the things they say about immigrants and foreign people and stuff.

    Gx
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    The best reason to not vote for the BNP is that their spelling and gramma is shit. :D
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Maybe because they know it is a racist and xenophobic party and they don't have the guts to come out and say out loud they're a bit racist and xenophobes themselves.
    Its the way the BNP goes against the British establishment. People are apologetic 'cos voting BNP is like a social deviancy
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What's the problem? The BBC have to be impartial. Previously, they could get away with not inviting him on because they don't generally invite any other unelected politicians on. But now he's elected, he should be up for consideration like anyone else. And I'd love him to be on there with Nigel Farage, just so he can't play the "we can't talk about immigration" card.
    Yeah, since the BNP got a place on the London Assembly and two MEP positions in Brussels, the party has been elevated and the BNP has a degree of legitimacy. So the big time TV has to give them a say and we'll see how well Nick Griffin can maintain his position under scrutiny in televised political interviews
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    grace wrote: »
    I have no respect whatsoever for the BNP as a political party, because they cannot spell. I was reading their website, and many pieces written by their prominent politiciansused the wrong 'their, there or they're' or 'your or you're'. If spelling and grammar was used correctly, I think I would be more tolerant of their (somewhat ridiculous yet scary) beliefs, but that just tips the bucket over for me.
    The BNP is a ramshackle party- lacking expertise, whether intellectual or political experience
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    Yeah, since the BNP got a place on the London Assembly and two MEP positions in Brussels, the party has been elevated and the BNP has a degree of legitimacy. So the big time TV has to give them a say and we'll see how well Nick Griffin can maintain his position under scrutiny in televised political interviews
    Well I'm not mystic meg but in all probability the BNP ain't going to lose any votes as a result, regardless of what good or bad performance Griffin makes.

    Indeed, chances are they'll gain new voters thanks to the national exposure, because those holding extremist, bigoted or irrational views don't often listen to reason, and tend to take in only what reinforces their views.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Well I'm not mystic meg but in all probability the BNP ain't going to lose any votes as a result, regardless of what good or bad performance Griffin makes.

    Indeed, chances are they'll gain new voters thanks to the national exposure, because those holding extremist, bigoted or irrational views don't often listen to reason, and tend to take in only what reinforces their views.
    I reckon the BNP will peak soon. With their recent achievements they're riding a wave and feel part of it all. However the British establishment is such they wouldn't progress much further. Especially when the economy recovers and Labour loses power. The next elections will see the BNP trying to hold their man at London's City Hall and hoping to keep their two MEPs, rather than expansion and one day form a government. There are people who have some views which reflect BNP concerns, want to hear what Nick Griffin has to say but we know his party can never be trusted with substantial power. Suppressing the BNP too much makes it appealing to rebellious voters
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Meanwhile the BBC is thinking of inviting Griffin to a future edition of Question Time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8240206.stm

    Excellent news. I just hope that that the BBC doesn't bow to the pressure exerted by the usual opponents of free speech, who pop-up in hysterical mobs as soon as Nick Griffin's name is mentioned. The irony of someone waving a "Nazi, fascist scum - go home" placard, (as was seen at the Oxford debacle) while trying to silence legitimate debate, is almost palpable.

    I really hope that we get to hear Griffin's views first-hand. And that we'll hear them without it descending into ad hominem attacks - a distraction from the business of talking about, potentially difficult and sensitive, issues that the BNP often run on and exploit. If he really is as odious as I suspect him to be, I don't see a better way of discrediting him than having him made out to be the fool that he probably is, in a public, unbiased forum.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More on topic: It seems to me that if I were a member of the BNP and genuinely had an issue I wanted resolved, then not stating my BNP credentials would be a fairly prudent move. It allows the issue to be confronted and dealt with on its own merits, rather than having to deal with the usual distraction of people screaming "Don't listen to him, he puts chilli-seeds up puppies' bottoms".

    Now as far as I can see from the story, a couple of allegedly racist teachers are to be sacked if they're found guilty of using school time and equipment to propagate racist material. One is accused of "[contributing] racist and religiously intolerant views to online discussions during lessons". While the other is accused of "accessing the BNP's website during school hours." These sounds like the makings of an interesting discussion - much more so than alleged canine bum-foolery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Now as far as I can see from the story, a couple of allegedly racist teachers are to be sacked if they're found guilty of using school time and equipment to propagate racist material. One is accused of "[contributing] racist and religiously intolerant views to online discussions during lessons". While the other is accused of "accessing the BNP's website during school hours." These sounds like the makings of an interesting discussion - much more so than alleged canine bum-foolery.
    wonder if employers will block the BNP site
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Well I'm not mystic meg but in all probability the BNP ain't going to lose any votes as a result, regardless of what good or bad performance Griffin makes.

    Indeed, chances are they'll gain new voters thanks to the national exposure, because those holding extremist, bigoted or irrational views don't often listen to reason, and tend to take in only what reinforces their views.

    I know you won't believe me but the majority of people who vote for the BNP are no more racist than the country is generally. If everyone who complained about immigration without having anything to back up their views voted for the BNP they would have got elected years ago. I'm not justifying racism, but being racist doesn't mean that you're a lesser human being. More often than not it's based on ignorance and fear anyway, and the way to deal with that is to talk about it.
    The fact is there are people who blame immigrants for things like failing education standards and lack of social housing. Feel free to call that racist if you want, but the fact is immigration is causing problems in those areas. For two years I had to spend every evening teching my younger cousin because his teacher was so busy teaching the child who couldn't speak english that the rest of the class was ignored. Of course, it wasn't the child's fault, and he had as much right to an education as anybody else, but I can see how it would cause some people who have sympathy with the views of the BNP, because people want a decent house or a good education for their children. They do not want to directly cause or contribute to another person's suffering. So they don't vote for the BNP but agree with them in some ways. Then they're labelled as racist for doing so, often by people in middle class areas where immigrants don't live because they often don't have any money either. I'm not in anyway defending the BNP because I know thoughts like this are overly simplistic and ignore how the system actually works but I know people who are BNP supporters for those reasons. They know the BNP are facists and they would never vote for them if they believed they had a chance at getting elected, they're trying to make a statement. But, if they're not allowed to express their views the government might as well be facists. By banning the BNP for TV now they've been elected we would be putting these people into a situation where they're not able to express their views, however inaccurate they are, in which case what would they have to lose if the BNP got elected? They'd, of course, keep voting for them, because if someone's going to be treated like that it's better that it's someone else. Again, I dislike the BNP as much as anyone, probably more because I can see what they're doing to individuals they claim they're speaking for, but banning tham from TV is not they answer, it creates an "us and them" mentallity which prevents the problems at the source of this being solved. The BNP have no policies, they haven't said how they're going to improve education for whoever see as British and their definintion of "British" itself has changed the last three times I saw them on TV. They will not get more support by being shown to be inconsistant idiots. If they don't get national TV exposure they'll continue with their biased leaflets for exposure, which are factually inaccurate as well as racist and not challenged. On TV their "facts" would be challenged as soon as they're stated and proved wrong. Unless you believe BNP supports are some how lesser human beings you should be able to give them enough credit to know they'll see the facts when they're in front of them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sorry but there can only be two types of people who vote for the BNP: racists and thick-as-pigshit idiots. Because the BNP is a racist party. Very much so. A party that doesn't see non-whites as British, regardless of whether they were born here. A party that does not admit non-whites as members. A party that would like to kick all 'darkies' out of the country.

    So if there really are people out there who vote BNP but don't see themselves as racist, then they are fucking imbeciles of the highest order.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I'm sorry but there can only be two types of people who vote for the BNP: racists and thick-as-pigshit idiots. Because the BNP is a racist party. Very much so. A party that doesn't see non-whites as British, regardless of whether they were born here. A party that does not admit non-whites as members. A party that would like to kick all 'darkies' out of the country.

    So if there really are people out there who vote BNP but don't see themselves as racist, then they are fucking imbeciles of the highest order.

    It's this kind of emotional over-simplification of a complex and nuanced topic that stifles legitimate, exploratory conversation and debate. I get it: you don't like Nick Griffin and you don't like the BNP - as far as my knowledge of them goes, neither do I. It's understandable to get passionate about them as a discussion topic, but it's not necessarily helpful to confine your discussions of them to bashing on about how shit they are, and how shit the people who vote for them are. No one's mind gets changed that way.

    Now, I agree with you about his weirdy-beardy views on what it is to be British. He clearly struggles to grasp what his actual beliefs are on the subject, as you can see in the Andrew Marr interview.

    He isn't, however, proposing to "kick all 'darkies' out of the country", any more - certainly that's not the party line at least. He's conceded that there wouldn't be the will nor the money for such action.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unless it's changed very recently, it has ALWAYS been the official party line to 'repatriate' non-whites. To me there is no difference whether this is to be done with carrot or stick. The end result is the same.

    There can be no doubt whatsover about the profound, fundamental and final racist nature and reason to exist of the BNP. There are no two ways about it. And if there are people out there who vote for them and don't see this, well I'm sorry but they are thick as pigshit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Unless it's changed very recently, it has ALWAYS been the official party line to 'repatriate' non-whites. To me there is no difference whether this is to be done with carrot or stick. The end result is the same.

    Have a watch of the Andrew Marr interview: http://news.ronatvan.com/2009/07/14/bbc-andrew-marr-interview-bnps-nick-griffin/. It's interesting, and he's pinned down on some horrible things he's said. He also professes to have changed a number of fundamental policies.
    There can be no doubt whatsover about the profound, fundamental and final racist nature and reason to exist of the BNP. There are no two ways about it. And if there are people out there who vote for them and don't see this, well I'm sorry but they are thick as pigshit.

    I think the BNP are being forced to abandon and rethink a lot of their more extreme, racist policies and ideologies as they're becoming more part of the mainstream - or at least the more public-facing members are recognising the need to profess it. I suspect they know that if they want to make more headway then they've got to - seem to, at least - become more moderate.

    He does also capitalise on legitimate concerns people have about immigration and poverty. Now, I haven't heard him offer any legitimate or cogent solutions, but this becomes more obvious the more expose you have to the man.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Have a watch of the Andrew Marr interview: http://news.ronatvan.com/2009/07/14/bbc-andrew-marr-interview-bnps-nick-griffin/. It's interesting, and he's pinned down on some horrible things he's said. He also professes to have changed a number of fundamental policies
    Look at Nick Griffin employing every psychological defense in the book to protect his party's image and trying to rationalize BNP policies. A good attempt to utilize TV airtime now that his election to Brussels has given the BNP a pinch of legitimacy
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Unless it's changed very recently, it has ALWAYS been the official party line to 'repatriate' non-whites. To me there is no difference whether this is to be done with carrot or stick. The end result is the same.

    There can be no doubt whatsover about the profound, fundamental and final racist nature and reason to exist of the BNP. There are no two ways about it. And if there are people out there who vote for them and don't see this, well I'm sorry but they are thick as pigshit.

    So what if they are? Maybe most people who voted for the BNP did so because they couldn't read the names of the other political parties, or they thought they were voting for the party they didn't want to get elected. Even if that were the case that person would still be an adult in a democratic country and so has the right to vote for whoever they choose. They also have the right to say whatever they choose, and listen to whoever they want to listen to. The fact that you don't like it does not take that right away.
    People who vote for the BNP have done so because they believe their rights matter more than the rights of ethnic minorities. That, in itself, is sickening and understandably will provoke an extreme reaction, but the fact is that if you need the government's support for anything you need to prove that you're more deserving than someone else who needs the government's support and the argument that you or your family have paid more tax into the system is one way to do it. The BNP are, at best, drawing attention to some the of issues their voters, and many other people, are affected by, but they're not offering any solutions and the more exposure they get the more people will realise that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's fine. People in this country have a right to vote for a racist party like the BNP; and the rest of us have a right to describe them as either racist scum or thick idiots.

    I'll I'm saying is that a vote for the BNP should not simply be treated as a protest vote. Anyone who votes for the BNP as a protest is a clueless imbecile. I'm sorry but there are no two ways about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    That's fine. People in this country have a right to vote for a racist party like the BNP; and the rest of us have a right to describe them as either racist scum or thick idiots.

    I'll I'm saying is that a vote for the BNP should not simply be treated as a protest vote. Anyone who votes for the BNP as a protest is a clueless imbecile. I'm sorry but there are no two ways about it.

    :yes: :yes: :yes:

    Want to 'protest' against the government? Vote Green or similar. But don't vote for Nazis.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    That's fine. People in this country have a right to vote for a racist party like the BNP; and the rest of us have a right to describe them as either racist scum or thick idiots.

    I'll I'm saying is that a vote for the BNP should not simply be treated as a protest vote. Anyone who votes for the BNP as a protest is a clueless imbecile. I'm sorry but there are no two ways about it.

    I agree that in a democratic country voting for facists because you can't get a bigger house or something is completely insane. The reason you can complaign about that sort of thing is that we have free speech and we're allowed to criticise the government, and by voting for the BNP people are trying to end that. But if the BNP aren't treated as a legimate political party, and as much as we hate it that's what they are, their voters are being censored. Their right to free speech, to vote and to listen to the political party they support will be taken away from them. And if that's taken away from them why should they care if other people have it? You can't persuade people to support democracy by taking away their democratic rights if they don't.
    I don't believe that anyone is too stupid, lazy or selfish to change if they're given a reason to. There is absolutely no reason why voters should be seen to be a lesser human being because of who they vote for. People who vote for the BNP often excuse their lack of policies by pointing out that it's difficult for them to take part in debates, and they see that as discrimination against them, creating an "us or them" mentality. That might sound incredibly stupid to you, but how many people are so stupid that they'll still support a party that has no policies and has been proved wrong on almost every point they make?
    To be honest, I think it's easy for people with an education and relative freedom to judge those who don't have it. I know very few BNP voters have the kinds of problems I'm talking about, but if you can't leave the house where do you get your knowledge of polictics from? The leaflets the BNP put through people's doors are completely inaccurate, but how do people find that out without researching everything that's on them? If you can't afford the internet or get out of the house to buy a newspaper the only thing you have to base your decisions on is the political debates on TV. And if the BNP are never there, and the points they raise on leaflets are never discussed, what conclusion do you draw from that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just a quick bump:

    Nick Griffin is to appear on QT

    Excellent news IMO.
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