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Armed Forces: economic conscription is here
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
Man forced to join army due to lack of jobs
Economic conscription is something that has been going on in the US for decades (and often with the US army's full complicity, sending recruitment teams to deeply impoverished areas trying to lure unemployed young men).
Now it seems it has reached the UK.
Fair enough if someone wants to join the army as a first choice, but I find it a tad disturbing that some people now feel they have to join up to pay the bills...
Economic conscription is something that has been going on in the US for decades (and often with the US army's full complicity, sending recruitment teams to deeply impoverished areas trying to lure unemployed young men).
Now it seems it has reached the UK.
Fair enough if someone wants to join the army as a first choice, but I find it a tad disturbing that some people now feel they have to join up to pay the bills...
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The infantry isnt far short of being totally full, much like the army.
Though I guess if people want to join up to pay the bills, then by all means they can and should. End of the day its a job that pays money (in some cases not enough).
Because of the starting wage being £13,300 or so, you dont get that many people joining to purely solve crisis problems, but I understand it is happening, but it really does keep them busy, and some trades where you can be on £24k within a year of your start date. Also a lot more younger people who find it difficult to get jobs when they leave school and college, are turning more quickly than ever before to the army.
I wouldnt day its anything to do with recruitment teams going to poor areas to recruit, they do Army Career Exhibitions literally all over the country, and have the recruiting offices all over the country, many army offices are tri service and recruit for all three services in the same building.
I cant comment on manning numbers of RAF and RN till I do a tad more research, but yeah, the army is getting pretty full. More so because of the lack of people leaving which is keeping the numbers up, but recruiting is on the increase, from all walks of life.
A lot of people have to do a job they don't like in order to pay their bills - many with conditions that will harm your health and take years off your life i.e factory night shifts.
The people I get annoyed by, there are those out there, dont understand and dont want a young lad to have a right to go to war and serve his country, get a campaign medal and make his mam and dad the proudest parents in the world. In a few cases that is actually why some people join up, its not a myth.
So people having the conviction to do what they need to put food on the table, whatever the case, is noble.
I agree.
A few years ago (this was when I had no idea what I really wanted to do) I thought about joining the army, but am not allowed.
It does take a fair amount of mental and physical effort to get up to the basic standards required, and they are always looking for you to be better than that.
So Id hardly say people find it easy to join the army in many cases, not that easy to get in and put that food on the plate
Well served, as being dead means they can no longer be 'serving'
Hey, believe what you want but dont take the piss, I believe in it, I serve.
Is it just me, or does that sound you're having a dig at those of us who are unemployed? Many of us have no choice.
I'm not taking the piss.
and the rest
Well you put it in such a nice way :P
That said most of the blokes I knew who joined weren't because they were unemployed, but because working 9-5 in a factory or a shop or building sie didn't appeal.
Well quite, and also I don't think it's really a tenable argument in a society with unemployment benefits and social welfare provision
A lot of people probably get their perceptions of miltary life from watching shows such as Bad Lads Army which was on ITV1 a few years back. Whilst there inevitably will be men in the army trying to get back on the right track, that doesn't mean they're all people off the beaten track. A lot of people are able to get education and other opportunities from the army which they often wouldn't be able to obtain elsewhere.
People who run down the military, who condemn it - they sicken me. Who would I consider a hero? The likes of Simon Weston, who served his country with distinction by fighting in the Falklands War - or someone like Steven Gerrard, an arrogant cunt who is paid to kick a piece of leather around a field? I know who I would call a hero.
When the armed forces recruit the unemployed by pointing out it's a stable job with many benefits, everybody complains.
Typical BBC attitude though: if he's poor, he obviously doesn't know what he's doing. So much for the "impartial" BBC. At least the Grauniad has the decency to be honest about it's left-wing agenda.
Well quite - it's a very classed-based attitude; however I think there are instances in the States where desperately poor communities were targeted, basically lied to, and their recruits then 'stop-lossed' for extended periods.
I can't say as I've ever heard of the same thing happening over here though.
Whatever times they give you to meet for any selection, make sure you can surpass them, the better you can do that when you turn up for a selection, will look very good on your part.
What a lot of people dont understand is, that those times they give you to meet, are the minimum!
Good luck if you go for them.
Join the Army then
From when i spoke to you before i thought you were quite sincere in what you want to do so you got my respect. If i thought we was going to enter a war of self defence, i'd sign up personally but i decided in the past few months i'm TOO resistant for taking part in what is a war that if i was in any position to stop i would so i'm looking being a firefighter or something now
I see the thing of signing up to get away from unemployment as a bad thing, i've always thought that this country has been right in maintaining a good volunteer army and i don't see economic hardship as a good reason to sign up, especially as it makes me think of people who've died for the US army, because it was about the only way to pay for university there
Apart from soldiers who've abused their prisoners or give this country a terrible name, all others have got a lot of my respect for doing what is a very difficult job tbh however i don't get the whole hero worship thing the newspapers have got running at the moment, since there are some heroic deeds performed by soldiers, but just being a solider doesn't make you any more heroic than anyone else imo
Actually you will find that the pay scales are the same, you will be on the same rate of pay as someone starting in the army for the first 32 weeks, in the army its first 26 weeks. (around £13.3k)
Marine £16,681.00 - £28,372.00
Corporal £27,051.00 - £32,531.00
Sergeant £32,113.00 - £36,204.00
Colour Sergeant £32,571.00 - £42,403.00
Warrant Officer 2 £32,571.00 - £42,403.00
Warrant Officer 1 £37,842.00 - £45,836.00
Then it progresses to the above, which is the same as the army ranks, except the marine rank encompasses what would be private and Lance Corporal in the Army. Though will take you longer to rise to Corporal in the marines.
Though some trades with the army you can have Lance Corporal within a year of first starting basic training, assuming you dont have to repeat any training. These trades I speak of are higher band as well, so around 24k per year.
So you saying a blanket statement that Royal Marine Commando's get paid more, is a wide and sweeping statement that you have no information or figures to back yourself up.
http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypayscales.htm
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/careers/pay-conditions-and-benefits/
The problem is that intentions and consequences aren't always the same thing. If someone joins up then happens to get sent out on an aggressive campaign (e.g: the Iraq war) I do not think it is unreasonable to oppose the mission while at the same time appreciating what is being done by those who are serving at the point of initiation of the campaign.
But if a soldier joins up not really worried about whether the mission is right or not, just wants a medal, then I'm sorry but my sympathies aren't with him.
You don't have a right to 'go to war' just because you want to (e.g: any old conflict will do) - if you join up just for the sake of saying you went to war and not really caring why you're fighting then I think that's despicable to be honest.
Maybe I misunderstand what you have said.
That is one major issue I have with those recruiting teams touring depressed areas of America and urging youngsters to join, painting a picture of 'going places, meeting new people (and shooting them)', and 'defending America'. It has been a very long time indeed since a US soldier has fought a war that had anything to do with defending America, its territories or its people.
To a lesser degree that is starting to happen here as well.
I'm not sure whether I'm understanding you or not, but the job of soldiers isn't to second guess the democratically elected Government, but go where they're told. It is not for those with guns to make the decisions, but the politicians elected by voters. As a soldier you're a professional dealer of violence (and a professional reciever of it) - the job at the end of the day is to go to 'any old war'. It is is for others to decide on the legality of it...
Now you may say that there comes a time when as a professional soldier you're obligations as a human outweigh your obligations as a servant of a democratic state (for example an order to kill all the first borns*), but you have to be very careful about soldiers taking politics into their own hands because that's how democracy dies.
* an illegal order so under the British Army you're not supposed to follow it, but I couldn't think of any particular examples.
+ the effectiveness of the military goes to shit when the soldiers start asking questions.
What you don't allow is your personal views to effect the job and you go where your told (moaning all the way over perhaps, but you go)
:-/