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Homosexuality: natural, nurture or just abnormal

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I can't understand what issue people have with homosexuality, I mean it's not like it's the business of anyone but the two consensual partners.

    I agree. There is no argument, except a religious one.
    Tbh I think if homosexuality was so unnatural or a choice, you wouldn't have people in some countries being criminally punished for it. Why the hell would you choose to be gay in a country like Iran. :confused:

    Again, I agree - but would you extend your not-a-choice position to heterosexuality as well? Or is homosexuality the only "natural" option?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote: »
    Again, I agree - but would you extend your not-a-choice position to heterosexuality as well? Or is homosexuality the only "natural" option?

    I not sure I quite understand what you are saying - but, if I do, then I would say that heterosexuality is not a choice either. A singular outcome is not the only result for 'choice'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    I not sure I quite understand what you are saying - but, if I do, then I would say that heterosexuality is not a choice either. A singular outcome is not the only result for 'choice'.

    :yes: I don't think you can choose your sexuality. I think you are born who you are, but you might not find out until later in life.

    X
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :yes: I don't think you can choose your sexuality. I think you are born who you are, but you might not find out until later in life.

    X
    Yes, the sexual blueprint is wired up in the brain at birth- then socialization
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed, you are born with it, as it is an instinct required to ensure we reproduce. The vast majority of us are heterosexual for this reason. A minority are born deviant but that's purely to do with the fluidity of genetics and how evolution investigates all possibilities.

    Of course, then there's cultural pressure. Gay and bi men pretending to be straight and straight girls pretending to be bi, but you really can't change what you are, no matter what you would like to be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed, you are born with it, as it is an instinct required to ensure we reproduce. The vast majority of us are heterosexual for this reason. A minority are born deviant but that's purely to do with the fluidity of genetics and how evolution investigates all possibilities.

    Of course, then there's cultural pressure. Gay and bi men pretending to be straight and straight girls pretending to be bi, but you really can't change what you are, no matter what you would like to be.
    Yeah, can't change brain wiring
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can say everyone is born with that probability, but you can't say born as.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    You can say everyone is born with that probability, but you can't say born as.

    Personally, I think from the day you are born your sexuality is "chosen" if you will. But I think some people never except it, or don't discover it. Because, it is quite possible that you could be Gay/Bi/Pan and never know as you don't wish to try anything with the other sex.
    X
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem is you're a baby. You are yet to develop into anything, to get a personality so to speak. So I find it hard that people are born to that one sexuality - even in the womb.

    We can all change our sexuality at any point during our lives. Some decide to do it the way The Convincer said - by faking it, experimenting without having no real attraction. Whilst others are naturally influenced by hormones and activity in the brain.

    We'll probably never know the why or how it comes about (100% that is). The only reason why being straight isn't questioned upon is because that's the "natural" order of things in order to conceive a child. So to give being gay it's meaning it must be a choice, unnatural and the smite of god.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i definately think its a combination of nature and nurture, it is down to genetics or whatever, but is expressed dependant on environment
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst I believe nurture and environment can play a role, I believe that such things largely influence behaviour and not attraction. I still believe you're largely programmed by your genetics and it's largely pre-determined. People don't always choose a way of sexual behaviour that matches their actual sexuality ie closeted homosexuals who've been brought up being taught that to be gay is wrong, the trendy bi girl thing, and invented sexualities like 'pan' (a sexual attraction to bread?).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just feel nurture may play a bigger part than thought, but thats likely cause i've had lectures on epigenetics recently, and we've been learning that genes can be switched on and off by environmental factors
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, an awful lot of men in prison seem to be bisexual, reverting to being heterosexual upon release. That's what I mean by environment.

    But I doubt people are straight when the suns out and gay when it rains, or when the temperature drops below 12C.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, an awful lot of men in prison seem to be bisexual, reverting to being heterosexual upon release. That's what I mean by environment.

    But I doubt people are straight when the suns out and gay when it rains, or when the temperature drops below 12C.

    Well i dont think that they actually turn bisexual in prison, to my mind at least, its more about intimidation and being the alpha male, but i've never been in prison so wouldnt know

    and i wasn't refering to those sorts of environmental factors either, but environmental factors is admittedly a vague term
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But there's no evidence of the "gay gene". I think that is a whole load of shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm pretty convinced that genetics play the main part in it, whether it's a single gene or (more likey) a combination of several genes. I don't believe people can genuinely choose their sexuality or have it schooled into them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    But there's no evidence of the "gay gene". I think that is a whole load of shit.

    As a matter of interest, what do you put your homosexuality down to?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt- If I had the choice I would be a gay male. Whereas, I actually am a bisexual female. Not only do I not like being a girl, I also dislike being into girls and boys. I would much rather be asexual, as a women. HOWEVER, I am attracted to people. And I do like girls and boys. I don't like likeing girls and boys, but I do.

    I can't have it any other way. I didn't wake up one morning and go "you know what, maybe I'll fancy a girl today."

    X
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's most certainly nothing to do with overbearing parents, experiences in the past or even in the present. I can't say why I am, I just KNOW I haven't always been this way. Not everyone has those feelings from a very young distinctive age. I certainly never. It's dependent on the person and their mind.

    I never chose to be gay either, but I most certainly changed faster than what seems to be the norm. I noticed a change in my sexuality within a few days, it literally was a transition from one to the other. I can't explain the why it was like that, but it was. It just took years and years for my overall attraction to any woman to fade away (And of course accept it). I still find the odd woman attractive but nowhere near as I find men.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't fancy people when I was little either but it doesn't mean I wasn't born straight.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's certainly enough evidence out there to show a large element of being born that way, but not enough to conclusively show that it's not, for example, a biproduct of some other genetic factor, rather than just being a "gay gene." There's no "singing gene" either, but that doesn't mean that good singers aren't good because their genetic makeup makes them good at singing. It's just a combination of lots of other things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    It's most certainly nothing to do with overbearing parents, experiences in the past or even in the present. I can't say why I am, I just KNOW I haven't always been this way. Not everyone has those feelings from a very young distinctive age. I certainly never. It's dependent on the person and their mind.

    I never chose to be gay either, but I most certainly changed faster than what seems to be the norm. I noticed a change in my sexuality within a few days, it literally was a transition from one to the other. I can't explain the why it was like that, but it was. It just took years and years for my overall attraction to any woman to fade away (And of course accept it). I still find the odd woman attractive but nowhere near as I find men.

    I think part of your experience was largely down to social conditioning. When you are young, you learn and accept by example that a heterosexual lifestyle is the 'norm' and because its the norm, you happily go along with your childhood male friends in 'fancying' girls without giving it much thought.

    However, after puberty, which is when sexual awakening usually starts to be important to the individual, those feelings for the same sex that you previously ignored because you didn't understand, come more to the forefront, even though you are still conditioned to the fact that you are supposed to fancy women.

    Its only as time passes and on realising that these feelings for the same sex remain, do you then start to really question your sexuality. For some people, they fight this and it can drag on and on, often with years of unhappiness.

    Because of the more accepting age in which we are in, I would imagine that you probably come from a pretty supportive family so that your decision to pursue your true sexuality was an easier decision to make - and one that you could make quite promptly.

    As an aside, Wikipedia has quite an interesting article on the biological differences in gay men and lesbians : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_gene

    While I accept that many of these points may still need further investigation and proof, it does indicate that perhaps there is something more going on inside us than meets the eye which overwrites any accusations that people 'choose' to be gay or are the sole outcome of their environment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt- If I had the choice I would be a gay male.

    Why did you come to that conclusion? :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Why did you come to that conclusion? :)

    Oh, it's hard to explain. But I don't like being female, I hate it- but I wouldn't want to be a "typical" male. I've just always felt like I'm different... until I started to hang out with homosexual boys... then I fitted in. I've always been attracted to a lot of them, but not in the way I am to people I date- it's kinda hard to explain...

    But, yeah, ever since I was about 11 (ssooo a year and a half ish) I've wanted to be a gay man.
    It sucks. Of all the lifestyles I could want to lead... Probably one of the only ones I can't have. :(
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My biology teacher told us that gays and lesbians have different fingerprints...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Grace wrote: »
    My biology teacher told us that gays and lesbians have different fingerprints...

    Every body has different finger prints...
    Xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well yeah, obviously.

    But like, a different sort. I don't know, it was a few years ago and just came up when we were studying genetics.

    X
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Grace wrote: »
    My biology teacher told us that gays and lesbians have different fingerprints...

    I've never read or can find any reference to that. Sounds unlikely.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh, it's hard to explain. But I don't like being female, I hate it- but I wouldn't want to be a "typical" male. I've just always felt like I'm different... until I started to hang out with homosexual boys... then I fitted in. I've always been attracted to a lot of them, but not in the way I am to people I date- it's kinda hard to explain...

    But, yeah, ever since I was about 11 (ssooo a year and a half ish) I've wanted to be a gay man.
    It sucks. Of all the lifestyles I could want to lead... Probably one of the only ones I can't have. :(
    Xx

    Awwwwwwwwww! I wanna be your gay friend! :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If I had a choice, I'd be a homosexual man too. Girls are real headfuckers.
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