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Homosexuality: natural, nurture or just abnormal

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    I like beetroot
    Abomination! Abomination! :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    I like beetroot

    Thats disgusting, you're going to hell for that :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't like the way most of the comments are based off religion/stereotypes.

    When anyone says it's sick, but they have no problem with gay people. Sorry, but being gay comes with the gay sex/relationships. That means you do have an issue with it. If you are meaning more towards just anal sex, you don't have to be gay to do anal sex. Most people don't believe me when I say anal sex doesn't interest me. It doesn't. I'll try it sure, but if I don't like it, I don't like it. I wont do it again and again just because I'm gay.

    I personally haven't always liked guys. I basically, in short terms, just changed over the course of say, 2 days literally where I could notice my feelings like normal. Of course it took me a few years to develop but my first feelings happened like that. Totally out of the blue.

    When it's mentioning campness. I don't like it myself, but if I see a camp guy I wont immediately think "Oh he's gay". Only because I don't act that way and I find it really irritating (Or remotely attractive). Just like I would in a woman. But because of that, when someone finds out I'm gay, they take it even worse. Be frank about it, having no issue with gay people, but being surprised someone is is still finding a small issue with it. Could even be you liked that person and you find this out, that to me is still an issue. You may not hate them for it but still.

    Two things though I don't and wont agree with is Gay Pride, or even coming out. Nothing to be proud of, and I shouldn't have to tell people every time. They should always have that thought of your child can be straight or gay (Inc. bi), not just accepting the most common.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    When anyone says it's sick, but they have no problem with gay people. Sorry, but being gay comes with the gay sex/relationships. That means you do have an issue with it. If you are meaning more towards just anal sex, you don't have to be gay to do anal sex. Most people don't believe me when I say anal sex doesn't interest me. It doesn't. I'll try it sure, but if I don't like it, I don't like it. I wont do it again and again just because I'm gay.

    Well yes, but I think you'll find people have similar attitudes towards the idea of anyone they don't find attractive going at it. You'd get a similar response to the idea of two pensioners having sex, or worse still, members of their own family. And I've had gay friends express similar attitudes about the idea of having sex with a woman. Which is why straight men who don't like the idea of two men going at it actually enjoy the idea of two attractive women doing the same thing. None of this is the same as actual disapproval, although I would question the attitude of anyone using the word "sick" to describe it, because that's a bit strong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You'd get a similar response to the idea of two pensioners having sex, or worse still, members of their own family. And I've had gay friends express similar attitudes about the idea of having sex with a woman. Which is why straight men who don't like the idea of two men going at it actually enjoy the idea of two attractive women doing the same thing
    Thats interesting- how gays see straight sex.
    I would question the attitude of anyone using the word "sick" to describe it, because that's a bit strong.
    Yeah such words should never be used- sign of bigotry
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    KiwiFruit wrote: »
    how gays see straight sex.
    This is a really small point, and I'm not implying you did this deliberately, but to say "gays" for "gay people" is considered quite offensive to some people because it defines them by their sexuality.

    But you are right, straight sex to me is a little bit strange, I'm just so not attracted to men that the thought of anyone having sex with one confuses me!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    Two things though I don't and wont agree with is Gay Pride, or even coming out. Nothing to be proud of, and I shouldn't have to tell people every time. They should always have that thought of your child can be straight or gay (Inc. bi), not just accepting the most common.
    Here I disagree, and this debate is endless so I don't expect to reach concensus but I did just want to put across the reasons I think Pride is important (and I mean the events, not the concept, which is another issue). I don't take pride in my sexuality in the conventional sense of the world; it's not an achievement that I can look back on and think I did it well. But it is an aspect of my personality that I have as much right to acknowledge as anything else. But the marches remain as a form of protest against the attitude that it is sick, against the idea that gay people are abnormal in some way. They reflect that we are just a bunch of normal folks who happen to fancy our own gender. Sure there is some theatricality, it tends to the camp end of the spectrum, but if you actually watch the parade there are a number of people who are just marching with youth groups, churches, community organisations. Just showing how flippin' normal we are. And yet at London Pride every year there is a counter-protest. It used to be just one group, a Christian organisation, but this year there was a second group there. Sure, they are kept away from the protest and they have never been dangerous but they highlight to me the way we have to go and the tremendous importance of keeping Pride going.

    As for coming out, that's always a personal choice. Most people who know me know I'm gay because they knew me as president of the LGBT society at uni or because they met my ex when we were together. But I don't tell people when we first meet (unless I'm with one of the delightful individuals who refer to me as Kate the Lesbian regardless of who is listening), I wait until we're talking about relationships and even then it's only if I have to use a pronoun or a name to describe my ex or who I'm attracted to; I don't labour the point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For as long as there are fuckwits out there claiming homosexuality is 'wrong', a ''sin'', an 'abomination, etc, events like Gay Pride are both needed and very much welcome.

    Fuck the bigots.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi i believe you should be who you are and not what society say you should be. I am a bi/fem. Not all my friends or family know of my sexuality due to anti gay feelings. I am slowly talking to people about my sexuality, but have to admit even in this day and age it is very hard.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Black pride and gay pride aren't about celebrating those particular features, they're about celebrating the people that fought for equality, and of course, continuing to do so in areas where equality hasn't yet reached. I can never take anyone seriously when they think it's about flaunting your sexuality, or wonder why you assume that anyone who moans that there's no "white pride" might be a bit racist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im a lezbian and im comfortable with my sexuality only a select few of my family know but just be who you are dont let anybody hold you back
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    av's wrote: »
    im a lezbian and im comfortable with my sexuality only a select few of my family know but just be who you are dont let anybody hold you back

    Just a thought, if only a 'few' people know, isn't that holding YOU back for not being who you are?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi there i have had a few relationships with bi/fem's but my problem is i really want to talk and explain my sexuality to my parents, and i know you must be thinkin a woman of 43 yrs and she still can't talk open with her parents. I can talk to my parents about most things but not my sexuality i really think it's down to how and the times they were brought up in. What are your views??????????
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lilruthie wrote: »
    Hi there i have had a few relationships with bi/fem's but my problem is i really want to talk and explain my sexuality to my parents, and i know you must be thinkin a woman of 43 yrs and she still can't talk open with her parents. I can talk to my parents about most things but not my sexuality i really think it's down to how and the times they were brought up in. What are your views??????????

    It is a generational thing that you have to contend with here. Presuming that your parents are in their 60s at least, they grew up in a different era and one must wonder if it's worth 'rocking the boat' with them at this stage in their lives.

    Unless not telling them is making you desperately unhappy, I don't think there is any pressure to do so BUT you state that you would like to talk to them.

    Why is that important to you that you do want to talk to them? Do you feel that you may very well have a lesbian partner in the future which would need explaining?

    Lots of people (straight/bi/gay) are not comfortable talking about the nitty gritty of their sex lives with their parents so don't feel alone there. But is it more YOUR discomfort that holds you back from talking to them than it is the fear of how they will react?

    Most good parents only want their children to be happy. You've produced some grandchildren for them so that is worth celebrating. But perhaps you may find they are far more accommodating of who you really are and you may be pleasantly surprised?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi thanx for replying, my parents are in there 60's and at the moment i am in a very rocky relationship with a male. My concerns are that if i met the right lady i would and feel that i could commit to her 100% as a lesbian. What really botheres me if this happens i really don't know how i would talk to them about this as i know there views about sexuality. The one thing i would not like to do if i met the right lady is to live a lie with her. But on the other hand i would not like to upset or hurt my parents feelings. They have always supported me through alot of things in my life i.e depresssion, self harming issues, attempting suicide, but i deep down i know they woulddn't be able to support me if i became a lesbian.
    Would you say the best thing for me to do would leave things as they are up until if it happens i do meet the right lady????????????
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    Just a thought, if only a 'few' people know, isn't that holding YOU back for not being who you are?

    Sytaight people don't go around announcing their sexuality, not in a coming out sense, so why should anyone else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Sytaight people don't go around announcing their sexuality, not in a coming out sense, so why should anyone else?

    Because if she wants the freedom to bring a girlfriend home, or even a succession of girlfriends, don't you think some 'clarification' of her situation to the family would be helpful? Telling family about one's sexuality is a step forward in attaining personal freedom.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just want to say, the reason why I disagree with Gay Pride is it is being dragged through the dirt. I don't see how it helps in anyway. Whenever for instance it is shown on the news, who do they show? The stereotype. I was actually going to go to Manchester pride this year for the experience of it. I never ended up going for other reasons.

    The reason why is if you want it be to be seen as normal, don't create other methods to change that. I don't agree with straight pride or anything either. It's all missed the point. Yes I agree behind the hidden message, but it's not about that anymore in practice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Sytaight people don't go around announcing their sexuality, not in a coming out sense, so why should anyone else?

    They do though, you just don't notice it so easily.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    I just want to say, the reason why I disagree with Gay Pride is it is being dragged through the dirt. I don't see how it helps in anyway. Whenever for instance it is shown on the news, who do they show? The stereotype. I was actually going to go to Manchester pride this year for the experience of it. I never ended up going for other reasons.

    The reason why is if you want it be to be seen as normal, don't create other methods to change that. I don't agree with straight pride or anything either. It's all missed the point. Yes I agree behind the hidden message, but it's not about that anymore in practice.

    Oooohhh I love gay pride! It's great!
    C-A x
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For what reason? Because it's light-hearted fun day out? If so, this is what I'm getting at with it losing its message. Don't mean to sound rude or like a grinch here though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    For what reason? Because it's light-hearted fun day out? If so, this is what I'm getting at with it losing its message. Don't mean to sound rude or like a grinch here though.

    No... I love gay pride because it's some where I can be open and comfortable with my sexuality... And yes, it is a light-hearted day, but that's part of the whole thing! "I am gay/bi and I am proud of it" is the message, and it get's delivered.
    C-A xx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No... I love gay pride because it's some where I can be open and comfortable with my sexuality... And yes, it is a light-hearted day, but that's part of the whole thing! "I am gay/bi and I am proud of it" is the message, and it get's delivered.
    C-A xx
    Yes, gay pride is an important day sending the message to homosexuals its OK to be comfortable with their sexuality, when there is prejudice and repression in the wider society. And it reminds everyone, particularly straight people, gays are very much around in a society today which is diverse and people should be tolerant
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've got absolutely nothing against boys who like boys and girls who like girls, but I'm not really comfortable with the whole effeminate man thing, I don't think men should spend longer in Boots than their girlfriends etc. I suppose I agree homosexuality is fine, but I get annoyed by campness.

    Here here! Thats coming from a gay man! :shocking:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JavaKrypt wrote: »
    For what reason? Because it's light-hearted fun day out? If so, this is what I'm getting at with it losing its message. Don't mean to sound rude or like a grinch here though.

    I think pride events mean different things to different people. When pride is on here in Brighton it is a fun weekend as much as anything else - largely, I suspect, because acceptance of gay folk isn't really a cause that needs championing here. It's a good-humoured, silly and and outrageously camp weekend which celebrates, among other things, the almost universal acceptance that being gay has gained in Brighton; it's not a highly politicised event.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think pride events mean different things to different people. When pride is on here in Brighton it is a fun weekend as much as anything else - largely, I suspect, because acceptance of gay folk isn't really a cause that needs championing here. It's a good-humoured, silly and and outrageously camp weekend which celebrates, among other things, the almost universal acceptance that being gay has gained in Brighton; it's not a highly politicised event.
    But this year it raaaaaiiiiined and I was really disappointed as I'd never been to Brighton Pride before.

    But, yes, Brighton felt much much more like a family environment than London. Much more relaxed, but there were still political stalls and staff at the fayre after.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote: »
    But this year it raaaaaiiiiined and I was really disappointed as I'd never been to Brighton Pride before.

    But, yes, Brighton felt much much more like a family environment than London. Much more relaxed, but there were still political stalls and staff at the fayre after.

    I was moving house over Pride weekend and, as horrible as it sounds, the wet weather worked in my favour as it meant is was possible to drive the van about! Normally the streets are so packed it'd have been impossible. </completely off topic> :D

    Sure, Brighton's Gay Pride isn't apolitical - it's just not the overarching theme.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've got absolutely nothing against boys who like boys and girls who like girls, but I'm not really comfortable with the whole effeminate man thing, I don't think men should spend longer in Boots than their girlfriends etc. I suppose I agree homosexuality is fine, but I get annoyed by campness.
    Here here! Thats coming from a gay man! :shocking:

    I don't think that you should be confused by the two descriptions : effeminate and camp.

    An 'effeminate' man is not necessarily 'camp'. Usually, effeminate men can't help themselves and are born that way.

    Campness, on the other hand, is put on. A definition might be 'exaggerated theatricalism'. Straight people can be camp too. Like Eddie Izzard! :)

    This is what I generally don't feel comfortable with because I am somewhat embarrassed by people drawing attention to themselves like that (which is often their goal). I have some camp guys as acquaintances - but nothing more.

    But while 'straight' men disapprove of 'camp' gay guys, straight guys have their problems too. Loud, boorish, drunken thug-types are hardly a classy representation of the straight male either.

    So lets just live and let live. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote: »
    So lets just live and let live. :)

    I think this is essentially the crux of it. I don't pretend to understand why some people choose to be screamingly-camp, but then I don't understand skinny jeans and larger louts, either. Let people alone to make whatever decisions they like, as long as they're not hurting anyone else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't understand what issue people have with homosexuality, I mean it's not like it's the business of anyone but the two consensual partners.

    As for whether or not it is natural, or a mental illness... The concept of mental illness is surely a social construct anyway. At what point to we draw a line and say this person has a mental illness and another doesn't?

    I have cyclic depression, but I don't consider myself mentally ill. Everybody experiences it differently...

    Just like I have 'dyspraxia'. I hate the idea of being just a dyspraxic, people are neurodiverse, not disabled and abled. :rolleyes:

    Tbh I think if homosexuality was so unnatural or a choice, you wouldn't have people in some countries being criminally punished for it. Why the hell would you choose to be gay in a country like Iran. :confused:
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