Should we stop treating those with disabilities as special?

Former Member

oh i see.

and people do that?

Former Member

I think that disabled children should go to mainstream school if they can, depending on how severe the disability is. It probably won't meet all their needs, no child has all their needs met by their school. If none of their needs are being met then there's a problem. By funding special schools for a child with a learning disability we're prioritising that child over children with other problems, such as not having support at home, or find the work too easy and wanting a challenge. I agree that every child should be treated as an individual, but they're not so we shouldn't put some before others because we view them as helpless. Disabled people are capable of much more than they're given credit for and they shouldn't be excluded from society at such a young age.

Former Member

since when is having the option to go to a specialist school, excluding someone from society?

No child has all their needs met by a school, but in a school system designed for and mainly catering to children with normal needs, a huge amount of people get left behind and then struggle through life because of an inadequate education. Its no surprise that the vast vast majority of people in young offenders institutions and prisons have learning difficulties. Very probably let down by the education system, disillusioned and not fitting in their whole life.
Catering to all types of people individually and tailoring education to each childs needs is what is needed to benefit society as a whole.

Former Member

If a disabled child goes to a specialist school they're only exposed to other disabled children and adults who understand them. In a lot of cases this is essential, but I think in the majority of cases it will limit the disabled person's options in the future. We learn much more about social interaction as children than we ever could as adults. A disabled adult will feel more confident and more able to deal with the rest of the world if they've mixed with people who aren't disabled at school.
Schools should be concentrating on the individual, but that would be expensive and time consuming and so certain people, such as those with learning disabilities, would be seen as more important than others. A child who takes a bit longer to learn to read is often ignored in favour of someone with a learning disability. It's not fair to give extra help to some people and not others.
The other problem with special schools is, in my experience, experts are so convinced that people with learning disabilities can't do certain things, or deal with certain things, that they try to "protect" them from it, which will clearly limit what they can do in the future. With disabilities like autism you have to start off with the belief that the child can achieve anything untill you're proved wrong rather than saying "don't speak in full sentences because they don't understand". I think secondary education is different but unless someone has a severe disability it would probably be better for them to go to a mainstream primary school so they can interact with other children and actually try things before adults decide they can't do it.

Former Member

Naturegoddess wrote: »

The other problem with special schools is, in my experience, experts are so convinced that people with learning disabilities can't do certain things, or deal with certain things, that they try to "protect" them from it, which will clearly limit what they can do in the future. With disabilities like autism you have to start off with the belief that the child can achieve anything untill you're proved wrong rather than saying "don't speak in full sentences because they don't understand". .

can i ask what exactly your experience of autism and specialist education is?

Former Member

I'll admit it's not a lot. I have an autistic brother who went to special schools but I've never worked or done any voluntary work in any similar schools. I am basing my opinion on this on what I've seen with my brother, and other disbaled people who did this same activities that he did. I know compared to someone who's taught disabled children I know very little, but then at the same time I think that it has to be about the individual rather than what's generally the case. Of course some people will need specialist education, but I think the problem with specialist education is that teachers have so much knowledge of the disability that they teach based on that knowledge, not based on what they child can do. What I said about not speaking in sentences was advice we were given about my brother, and we just thought that if we did stop using full sentences of course he'd never understand them. There was probbly going to a point where we weren't there and he needed to learn to recognise the words he understood in a sentence not just on their own, which he can now do and so he is more confortable in social situations because he knows what's happening.
I'm not against specialist schools because, as I've said, my brother went to specialist schools, but it meant we all had to put a lot of extra work into exposing him to the things the school was trying to protect him from. For someone with a less severe disability I think a mainstream school would be the best option.

Former Member

was this a long time ago. I guess every specialist school is different just as much as every mainstream school is different. It may take more funding to cater for individual childrens needs, but I will always think that its a price worth paying

Former Member

It was about 10 years ago which in terms of autism is forever.
I completely agree that schools should be about the individual and it would be worth the financial cost, because it would probably save more money in the long run. But if we're being realistic, it is not going happen. For any child, it's up to the parents to consider all the facts and try to go with the best thing that's available, which isn't always specialist education around the child's disability. The parents of a child who doesn't interact because they're really shy or have never learned to share wouldn't even consider sending them to a school where they wouldn't have to overcome that, so why does a medical diganosis change everything?
Of course I would love it if the government would decide to give every child the education they deserve, but they won't so people have to be realistic and accept the low cost option. Whatever school a disabled child goes to means the families will have to teach them a lot anyway. Early education is more about social interaction than academic achievement, so in that sense a mainstream school is better.

Former Member

SuzyCreamcheese wrote: »

oh i see.

and people do that?

Yes. People always overcompensate.

Former Member

ShyBoy wrote: »

Yes. People always overcompensate.

I agree. And, in terms of the issue about schools, you have to consider what message this gives a young child abiut how they can, and should, live their lives.
I think in general the problem is seeing people with disabilities as an individual rather than a diganosis. Also, for every "basic" function the brain or body is unable to perform, there's another ability gained to make up for it. So while in some ways people with disabilities have a harder life, they probably find many things easier.

Former Member

Naturegoddess wrote: »

It was about 10 years ago which in terms of autism is forever.
I completely agree that schools should be about the individual and it would be worth the financial cost, because it would probably save more money in the long run. But if we're being realistic, it is not going happen. For any child, it's up to the parents to consider all the facts and try to go with the best thing that's available, which isn't always specialist education around the child's disability. The parents of a child who doesn't interact because they're really shy or have never learned to share wouldn't even consider sending them to a school where they wouldn't have to overcome that, so why does a medical diganosis change everything?
Of course I would love it if the government would decide to give every child the education they deserve, but they won't so people have to be realistic and accept the low cost option. Whatever school a disabled child goes to means the families will have to teach them a lot anyway. Early education is more about social interaction than academic achievement, so in that sense a mainstream school is better.

I think mainstream is often best for primary. This is what im choosing for my autistic son. I havent decided what im going to do for secondary, but after a friends of mines daughter has recently started (mainstream)secondary after doing really well at primary, and after spending the first few weeks hiding behind the vending machine because she was so frightened, her nervous tic getting worse and worse, then refusing to go in. The school not even knowing who she was, and now she is taught in isolation where the bad kids get taught because the teachers dont know/dont have the resources to cope, im swaying towards specialist. I have another friend whos autistic son is in a specialist school and is getting on brilliantly. He actually has friends now because he ISNT different anymore.

Its all very well saying "well it would be nice to have all children having their needs met, but we need to think of the low cost option" when its not your child who is unnecessarily falling behind, and there ARE people that can teach him properly, and there ARE schools which have the facilities and staff for this

Former Member

I'm not saying all children with disabilities should go to mainstream schools, I'm saying for some people learning to interact with others is more important than passing exams. I'd actually say that parents of autistic children should send them to a specialist school even if mainstream would be better for them, because without a school's support you'll have no chance of getting anything after their 18th birthday. But that is nothing to do with education.
Pretty much everyone I know had problems when they started secondary school, it's not just disabled people who need extra help. If the government aren't going to help everyone they shouldn't just decide who they think are vunerable and help them. And, as heartless as this sounds, if people have the kind of disability that will enable them to work when they get older they'll need to get used to uncertain situations and negative comments. It would be easier for them to do that as a child.

Former Member

Naturegoddess wrote: »

The parents of a child who doesn't interact because they're really shy or have never learned to share wouldn't even consider sending them to a school where they wouldn't have to overcome that, so why does a medical diganosis change everything?

There's a big difference between a shy child and one with autism.

Of course I would love it if the government would decide to give every child the education they deserve, but they won't so people have to be realistic and accept the low cost option. Whatever school a disabled child goes to means the families will have to teach them a lot anyway. Early education is more about social interaction than academic achievement, so in that sense a mainstream school is better.

Why should money come into it? I suffered at college for this reason, because they felt money was more important than my needs - at one point they even questioned my diagnosis (which they'd never heard of) and whether I should even be using a computer. (I was forced to use the computers everyone else did - I couldn't read what was on the screen and it was normal to get eye strain and headaches after 5 minutes)

I'd actually say that parents of autistic children should send them to a specialist school even if mainstream would be better for them, because without a school's support you'll have no chance of getting anything after their 18th birthday.

You do know that Autism is different for everyone, don't you?

So while in some ways people with disabilities have a harder life, they probably find many things easier.

What makes you think that? I do know some deaf people who say their vision is better, but don't know of anyone who is visually impaired who has better hearing.

When someone has a disability whereby it affects their whole body, compensating isn't actually possible.

Former Member

I'm not saying disabilities should be ignored, I'm saying we should stop assuming we need to protect people with disabilities from certain things. Some people need more help than others. Money does come into it because things need to be paid for and the fact is nobody is willing to pay for it so it has to be cheap. I didn't decide that, I would love it if it changed. But it won't.
Disability is not the only cause of educational problems and it's not always worse than other problems, and there's no reason why it should be assumed to be. The focus should be on the individual, someone with a disability shouldn't always be treated differently.
Of course I know autism is different for everyone, why wouldn't it be when everyone is different? That's my point, some people need a lot of help, some don't. The type of help needed is varied depending on the disability, the extent of the disability, how the body makes up for it, how the disability is being delt with, how strong willed the person is, how they're emotionally dealing with the disabilty.......the list could go on forever.
In terms of education, I think mainstream school should be tried first because in my experience the emotional effect of having a disabled child can lead to parents either trying to "protect" their children, or being determind that the disabilty won't affect them. Mainstream school would give them a sense of perspective.

Former Member

Naturegoddess wrote: »

Money does come into it because things need to be paid for and the fact is nobody is willing to pay for it so it has to be cheap. I didn't decide that, I would love it if it changed. But it won't.

There are very few disability aids that some people need that are cheap. There are actually grants that schools and colleges can apply for, but many don't bother and just give students what they think they need - not what the student has been told they need.

Former Member

That's more about those particular schools and colleges being managed by inconsiderate idiots. If somebody needs something to help them learn I think they should have it. My point is that it should be based on what the individual needs, not whether or not an "expert" has decided they need it.

Former Member

The focus should be on the individual, someone with a disability shouldn't always be treated differently.

but thats such a contradiction.

Surely if the person doesnt need any extra help, then they dont have a disability in the first place. Thats the nature of it. Thats why its called disability/special needs. I dont think specialist schools are a cotton wool environment. Thats not the idea behind them at all. Theyre not just institutions to place disabled people anymore - they might have been in the past, but teaching children like that requires special skills that arent necessarily taught in normal teacher training, certainly not extensively.

Former Member

I've seen so many people held back from achieving their potential because their diganosis becomes their identity. I'll admit these people were autistic so for people with a more specific diagnosis it's probably different, but if we'd just accepted what my brother's teacher's said he could do he'd probably be unable to do anything. I'm not talking about an old-fashioned school in the distant past, at the time I think the school was one of the best, but it was too focused on the disability. In my opinion my brother's autism meant that he needed to deal with situations he wasn't in control of, find meaning in sentences he didn't understand and generally do what his disability should have made impossible, which he is now able to do. It might have changed in the last 8 years, but from the way social workers talk I don't think it has. People need to learn to deal with things they find difficult to deal with.

Former Member

In an ideal world everyone with a disability would find ways and means of coping with all of their problems and get to the point where they no longer needed any extra support and fitted right into general society.

For some children, that may be achieveable in main stream education, for others it could pretty much be the worse thing for them.

Autism is a really tricky one, because of the huge spectrum it covers. I've come across autisic children who had no communication when they started school, and have learnt makaton at a special primary school and thus at least now have some way of communicating. No main stream school would have had the time or the expertise to deliver that kind of support to get life skills to those children.

I've come across a couple of kids who have emotional-behavioural problems, and learnt next to nothing during their time at junior school because their difficulties meant that all the classroom teaching passed them by, and spent playtimes picking fights with other kids, inside on detention, or running away. They went to an EBD unit for secondary school and made huge improvements, learning to read being one of the kind ofkey ones, and learning to interact functionally with their peer group. The two I'm thinking of then went onto mainstream college so the specialist support worked.

Mainstream with or without extra support may be right for some people, but it definitely isn't for others. What's important is that the aim for the child, wherever they are, is for them to reach their full potential, and the potential for that child, not what someone else thinks they should and shouldn't eb able to do, and that as many life skills are taught as possible.

Former Member

Scary Monster wrote: »

In an ideal world everyone with a disability would find ways and means of coping with all of their problems and get to the point where they no longer needed any extra support and fitted right into general society.

For some children, that may be achieveable in main stream education, for others it could pretty much be the worse thing for them.

Autism is a really tricky one, because of the huge spectrum it covers. I've come across autisic children who had no communication when they started school, and have learnt makaton at a special primary school and thus at least now have some way of communicating. No main stream school would have had the time or the expertise to deliver that kind of support to get life skills to those children.

I've come across a couple of kids who have emotional-behavioural problems, and learnt next to nothing during their time at junior school because their difficulties meant that all the classroom teaching passed them by, and spent playtimes picking fights with other kids, inside on detention, or running away. They went to an EBD unit for secondary school and made huge improvements, learning to read being one of the kind ofkey ones, and learning to interact functionally with their peer group. The two I'm thinking of then went onto mainstream college so the specialist support worked.

Mainstream with or without extra support may be right for some people, but it definitely isn't for others. What's important is that the aim for the child, wherever they are, is for them to reach their full potential, and the potential for that child, not what someone else thinks they should and shouldn't eb able to do, and that as many life skills are taught as possible.

good post

Former Member

Of course, all this relates to education and I agree that certain children with certain needs do have to have that bit of extra supervision and help, be it one to one in a mainstream school or in a school that's especially for them.

Play, however, I think is a different matter. I believe that any child, regardless or his or her capabilities deserves to enjoy themselves to the utmost and this means finding ways that they can join in with everyone else. I have seen an amazing change in children who attend special schools, to go to a mainstream afterschool club. I've worked one to one with several children with ranging needs and abilities and it is the most wonderful thing to see other children involving them into their play. One girl's mother was outraged because we had let her daughter play a game that she had never been allowed to play before. A simple game of duck, duck, goose, but the girl was thrilled to join in. And the children knew and appreciated that because she was in a walker she can't run very fast. So the other kids ran slower. But the girl fell over and bumped her arm. She had a very small bruise but I explained to the mother what had happened (because it is my job to report any small injury) and she was livid that her child was in a position to hurt herself.

Now obviously this girl was in no danger. I was keeping a very close eye on her, I was close to the girl and I caught her before it was her head that she hit on the ground. (Most importantly I had to watch for her back because she was in a brace). Anyway, this girl was in no real danger, this girl didn't mind the bruise. In fact, she was rather proud of it. She, for once, had been allowed to play a game with all the other kids and she had a little purple/blue badge on her arm to show for it.