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Is capitalism working?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
For more than a tiny minority of crooks?
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There has been a fascist coup in America which is now sweeping the globe.
Remember the guy who's name i can't remember ...bored us all fucking mindless with the there are no countries stuff?
Turns out he was right too ...with the fiat currency and the debt.
Remember me last year saying a loaf of bread this year ...would cost around fifty quid ...even thats not looking so crazy now ...is it?
What's the alternative?
Are our minds really that feeble ...that brainwashed?
As children we are taught that sharing is important ...essential even.
Self interest has to be very limiting compared to what we were taught as children surely?
What was Clandestines hook? Klintock had countries and i'm sure Clandestine had one too.
Klintock was right about fiat currency and the federal reserve system, but the current economic situation isn't that. We've still got that shit-pit to look forward to.
I can still get bread for under a quid, so, no, I'd say you were miles off with that one.
What, you mean capitalism?
You either trade things or you don't. The problem is with money lending. People can't borrow or lend responsibly.
I think there is a key point about the resources (i.e: the ideas and language) we have available in public to debate this - our whole language of political economy is still rooted in a now-long dead era of industrial production stemming from the turn of the last century.
Left/Right, capitalism/socialism, free markets/command economies - all of these need updating - again I'd point to the idea of the runaway world, and suggest that it's also our language and ideas that need to keep pace.
Not in any particularly academic way, just that perhaps we should all reflect on the language we use to describe the world we live in.
We should also try to improve capitalism rather than laud it (as many people sadly do), because there is no doubt it is a very unfair, ugly, and at times simply despicable system. Naked greed is never good. Massive salary differences between workers and directors is never good. Putting the interests of faceless shareholders and speculating parasites before those of customers and the workers of the company are particularly odious.
There is massive room for improvement on all those areas, and don't let anyone tell you we cannot interfere with it or the system will collapse, because those are just lies by selfish bastards.
At every crisis point, with every recession, ever increasing sectors of the population are rendered economically inactive, and it takes ages (literally, in the sense of ages in time) to recover that debasement. Former coal mining areas and mill towns in the north have become stereotypes of economic dispair - a Tory thinktank even suggested that we should in effect remove them and encourage migration to the south.
The idea of benefit claiming chavs, large numbers scamming the system, is a misnomer precisely because no one asks the question 'where did they come from?'. Everyone is quick to point out groups and families (and they do exist, my own research has shown me this) with no interest in working. But if you look at the rise in long term benefit dependency (job seekers and sick allowance) it is clear that this is a problem solidified through stages of drastic economic change.
The key point is this - working, wanting to work, the experience of working and the identities that people develop in relation to work (and their environments, friends, areas, families, colleagues etc.) are vital for communities to produce successive generations of economically active people.
This recession will make things worse (even when the economy picks up), and the governments know this - they know this because their own research, as well as peer reviewed academic evidence, has been telling them this since 1985...and while no one is looking, it is a Labour government, that will bring in Workfare CiF Guardian
- a policy that the overwhelming bulk of evidence has shown to do nothing for communities, but is great at encouraging the kind of economic activity we all love to hate; drug related crime.
Strict liability and limited liability.
The former leads to individual responsibility. The individual profiting, or suffering, as a result of his/her own actions.
The latter gives rise to the twin ugly (and evil) sisters of taxation and corporatism.
anyway:
Nationalisation of key industries, a regulated free market and the distribution of wealth.
Lets have markets, lets have change - but lets have sense and compassion as well.
Obama kept that quite under his hat, if McCain had got in I could more easily believe it, but Obama is actually reasonably left wing - for the US at least. Closing GITMO isnt exactly the actions of a fascist coup.
Maybe i DIDN'T EXPLAIN MYSELF VERY WELL.
tHE DOING AWAY WITH THE fEDERAL RESERVE ...OIops caps.
Most Americans believe their money is produced and issued by the government when in fact it is issued by a handful of very wealthy families ...who own the federal reserve as a private concern.
Every time the AMerican government wants a dollar it has to ask the federal reserve ...who obligingly print it and issue it ...at interest to the American tax payer.
These families contribute nothing to the world except debt they create from money they create ...out of thin air.
Not only is it immoral but under normal conditions would surely be seen as criminal.
How can any individual have the right to create money out of thin air?
Create instant debt for a whole population out of thin air?
Give me one good reason why the American governement don't print and issue their own currency interest free ...one good reason will do.
Everyone who speaks out aboout this issue ...gets shot.
Obama works for the same international bankers that GWB and Clinton worked for and many presidents before them.
It's time to close such places.
American democracy is Hollywood democracy ...nothing more.
Obama is just the latest man at the shop front.
Because then the banks would ask for loads and give out credit at extremely low interest rates and fuel inflation. If you consider the amount of money in an economy, theoretically that money represents the 'value' of capital and stuff in that economy. If you just churn out more money, then the value of money itself just falls. It's good to have a healthy level of inflation, so money or liquidity is needed in an economy. Otherwise everyone just puts it away in their accounts.
The reason it should be run seperate from the government is because if it is not you get a conflict of interests. You can manipulate the supply of money to change the way the economy looks for a short period, but over the long term it won't be the best fit for the economy. It is a bit complicated, but you need to look up liquidity and money supplies and different money measures like M0.
I totaly don't agree here.
If you give the supply and issuance to a family ...they can inflate and deflate that currency at will.
These families crreated the great depression in exactly the same way they have created this one.
You flood the economy with almost limitless credit ...then stop that credit overnight.
Why should a handful of families be given that power?
George Soros: Financial system has disintegrated. Crisis more severe than Great Depression. Decline comparable to fall of Soviet Union.
Volcker: Cannot remember any time, even in the Great Depression, when things went down so fast and quite so uniformly around the world.
* Corporate bankruptcies: A chain reaction of Chapter 11 filings or federal takeovers, including not only General Motors and Chrysler, but also Ann Taylor, Best Buy, Jet Blue, Macy's, Saks Fifth Avenue, Sears, Toys "R" Us, U.S. Airways and even giants like Ford or General Electric.
* Megabank failures: Bankruptcies or nationalization not only of Citigroup and Bank of America, but also JPMorgan Chase and HSBC. (See my January issue, "Megabanks Could Fail Despite Federal Aid.")
* Nationwide epidemic of small and medium-sized bank failures: Outright FDIC takeovers, with little prospect of nationalization. (I'll give you a link to our free guide with a more extensive list in a moment.)
* Insurance failures: State takeovers of companies like Ambac Assurance, Bankers Life and Casualty, Conseco, FGIC, Medical Liability Mutual, Mortgage Guaranty Insurance, Nuclear Electric Insurance, PMI Mortgage, Standard Life of Indiana and many others. (Our free guide also contains a more extensive list of insurers.)
* Cities and states: An epidemic of defaults by thousands of cities, states and other issuers of tax-exempt municipal bonds.
* Stock market shutdowns: Trading halts on major, big-cap stocks ... plus on-again, off-again exchange shutdowns, making it increasingly difficult for investors to liquidate their holdings at any price.
* Credit market deep freeze: A virtual shutdown in all debt markets except U.S. Treasuries. An avalanche of selling — and virtually no buyers — for corporate bonds, commercial paper, asset-backed securities, municipal bonds and all forms of bank loans.
* Government bond collapse: A steep decline in the price of medium-and long-term government securities, as the U.S. Treasury bids aggressively for scarce funds to finance a ballooning budget deficit.
Shocking? Perhaps. Avoidable? No.
Still think capitalism's working?
6Thats honest and refreshing mate cos the truth is ...few of us do fully understand this shit and thats the way it's meant to be.
We are on the verge of a Global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.” - David Rockefeller to the United Nations Business Council on September 23, 1994