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Proposition 8 - Same sex marriage

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
For a giggle

But seriously... How tragic is this legislation... And why is it anybody else's business what same sex couples do, if it is in a respectful consenting manner?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not sure what the legislation is, but I agree with Jack Black :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hahaha! That is brilliant!

    But it's the same things that Jack/Jesus said that I say to people who are so against homosexuals. You're picking and choosing. The Bible say a lot of things, he's right.

    It just pisses me off so much that people seem to forget that the whole thing is about love. Idiots!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dull, dull, dull. What a waste of three perfectly good minutes. There was me expecting to see something different. How were those people who support gay "marriage" - and I'm one of them, before any of you lot dare attempt to imply otherwise - going to persuade the numerous number of people who oppose it to change their minds? Ah yes, by portraying the other side as religious nutcases. It's a tactical typical of the Left - kill two birds with one stone by having a go at Christians and your opponents at the same time. Pathetic, and totally to be expected.

    If they want to do something truly daring, make a video which features the prophet Mohammed and attacks the blatant homophobia of the Islamic religion. But of course, they wouldn't dare to do that. Unlike Christians, who have virtually given up the fight against atheism, Muslims don't sit back quietly when their religion is under attack. Strange how one form of homophobia is virulently attacked yet the other is ignored, isn't it?

    As for this Proposition 8, it's a matter for individual US states whether they want to legalise "gay marriage" or not. If they think that homosexual relationships are unnatural and shouldn't be validated by the state, that's their problem. They are not going to care less what people on this side of the pond think of the subject.

    I blame Richard Dawkins for the idea you have to act like a complete dickhead towards anyone who doesn't agree with you. If I ever become Prime Minister, he'll be thrown into the sea along with Macavity Broon and the nation's entire stock of caravans.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what the fuck are you on about stargalaxy. The muslims havent got anything to do with gay marriage legislation. Its the Christian fundamentalist right wing in America in that case. Why on earth would they bring Muslims into it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I blame Richard Dawkins for the idea you have to act like a complete dickhead towards anyone who doesn't agree with you.

    Tremendous. Absolutely tremendous :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I blame Richard Dawkins for the idea you have to act like a complete dickhead towards anyone who doesn't agree with you.

    In other words...



    addiscartoon.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good video :)
    Didn't California take a vote on proposition 8 though? So it was the people who decided against it. I was quite surprised really - I wouldn't have thought they'd be so conservative there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Dull, dull, dull. What a waste of three perfectly good minutes. There was me expecting to see something different. How were those people who support gay "marriage" - and I'm one of them, before any of you lot dare attempt to imply otherwise - going to persuade the numerous number of people who oppose it to change their minds? Ah yes, by portraying the other side as religious nutcases. It's a tactical typical of the Left - kill two birds with one stone by having a go at Christians and your opponents at the same time. Pathetic, and totally to be expected.

    If they want to do something truly daring, make a video which features the prophet Mohammed and attacks the blatant homophobia of the Islamic religion. But of course, they wouldn't dare to do that. Unlike Christians, who have virtually given up the fight against atheism, Muslims don't sit back quietly when their religion is under attack. Strange how one form of homophobia is virulently attacked yet the other is ignored, isn't it?

    As for this Proposition 8, it's a matter for individual US states whether they want to legalise "gay marriage" or not. If they think that homosexual relationships are unnatural and shouldn't be validated by the state, that's their problem. They are not going to care less what people on this side of the pond think of the subject.

    I blame Richard Dawkins for the idea you have to act like a complete dickhead towards anyone who doesn't agree with you. If I ever become Prime Minister, he'll be thrown into the sea along with Macavity Broon and the nation's entire stock of caravans.

    I have no idea what you're on about.

    It isn't up to anybody who isn't gay to tell people who are in same sex relationships that their relationship isn't valid, it isn't their descision to butt in.

    The USA is not a Muslim state, so a campaign against Islam would be nonsense in this context.

    Some Christians have fought against people who criticise their religion. I say some Christians, as Christianity is incredibly diverse, as is Islam. You can't just lump people in together... And Islam has been under attack a lot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    Good video :)
    Didn't California take a vote on proposition 8 though? So it was the people who decided against it. I was quite surprised really - I wouldn't have thought they'd be so conservative there.
    I've had long discussions with friends about this. The conclusion we reached was that California is not a Republican State by any means, partly due to its larger minorities of blacks and Hispanics. But those very large minorities are likely to be less accepting of homosexuality than their white peers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I've had long discussions with friends about this. The conclusion we reached was that California is not a Republican State by any means, partly due to its larger minorities of blacks and Hispanics. But those very large minorities are likely to be less accepting of homosexuality than their white peers.

    Well it's got a Republican Governor so i'd say its inhabitants would disagree. Mind you the Republicans have pulled in a lot of Hispanics over the last few years (though they switched to the Democrats this time), in part due to Bush being the first Spanish speaking President and spending a lot of time/effort pulling them in.

    Of course things like Gay Marriage split party lines - my parents in law (both Democrats) are anti-Gay marriage, whereas my brother in law (republican) thinks its none of the states business.

    Also bear in mind as we burst into our default positions, california isn't the only place which doesn't recognise Gay marriages, neither does the UK

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celia_Kitzinger_and_Sue_Wilkinson
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    It isn't up to anybody who isn't gay to tell people who are in same sex relationships that their relationship isn't valid, it isn't their descision to butt in.
    As I've been at pains to point out, I don't dispute this. But if individuals US states say they don't want to allow civil partnerships and the like, that's a matter for them. It's nonsense to claim that all the opposition to this comes from more religious persons. What about the sizeable proportion of people who think that being gay is somehow unnatural? Much as I disagree with them, they're unlikely to change their minds through character assassination.
    The USA is not a Muslim state, so a campaign against Islam would be nonsense in this context.
    Give it time. It's quite possible that a Muslim country will eventually become one of the richest in the world. At that point, this battle will start all over again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    UAE is already much richer than the US
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    UAE is already much richer than the US

    Going off-topic, but no it isn't...

    UAE

    GDP (purchasing power parity):
    $164.4 billion (2007 est.

    GDP (official exchange rate):
    $192.6 billion (2007 est.)

    GDP - per capita (PPP):
    $37,000 (2007 est.)

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ae.html

    USA

    GDP (purchasing power parity):
    $13.78 trillion (2007 est.)

    GDP (official exchange rate):
    $13.84 trillion (2007 est.)

    GDP - per capita (PPP):
    $45,800 (2007 est.)

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    UAE is already much richer than the US
    Not 100% sure about that, although it's indisputable that UAE have a lot of oil and money. It's also worth looking at Russia. This is an increasingly powerful nation with considerable energy reserves. Energy equals power, and power equals influence. And as you'll find out by reading this article, the Russians aren't exactly friendly towards the idea of gay marriage either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Excuse me stargalaxy, but I'm a Christian. And I thought that the video was brilliant. It's not a dig at Christianity, it's a dig at religious zealots who neglect what the word is about. 'The Bible says a lot of things...'

    And I do fight back to cockends like Richard Dawkins who tells me I'm an idiot for believing in a God. Fuck him. Fuck anyone who refuses to talk to me because of what I belief. I've been bullied most of my life because of my beliefs and I fight. My God, I put up a fight. But only to defend my love of Jesus/God. Not to defend some ridiculous rule that I think I have the power to legislate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey IWishIWas you've got a good attitude there. I frequently have arguments with a friend who believes religion causes intolerance and thus is evil, that homosexual people need to be put on a pedestal, and basically all that kind of nonsense. She even comes up with arguments (and she is well educated) that religious people are just less intelligent and that its a natural thing to hold onto for people who lack higher reasoning!

    I told her in no uncertain terms she was being a bit of a cock but there are tonnes of these liberal elitists who just like any other group really think if people don't think the same as them, they're wrong. I quite liked a rebuttal of atheism by a christian on youtube recently who said basically atheism / naturalism relies on interpreting our world view based on physical evidence that we can see. He said that's ok, but consider that we can't hear for example a dog whistle - that doesn't mean the noise isnt there - just that it's outside our perception.

    Therefore, isn't it just being open minded to the possibility that outside our perception there is a higher being... it's pretty hard to argue with that. Sorry for off topic, antitheists make me angry.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Hey IWishIWas you've got a good attitude there. I frequently have arguments with a friend who believes religion causes intolerance and thus is evil, that homosexual people need to be put on a pedestal, and basically all that kind of nonsense. She even comes up with arguments (and she is well educated) that religious people are just less intelligent and that its a natural thing to hold onto for people who lack higher reasoning!

    I told her in no uncertain terms she was being a bit of a cock but there are tonnes of these liberal elitists who just like any other group really think if people don't think the same as them, they're wrong. I quite liked a rebuttal of atheism by a christian on youtube recently who said basically atheism / naturalism relies on interpreting our world view based on physical evidence that we can see. He said that's ok, but consider that we can't hear for example a dog whistle - that doesn't mean the noise isnt there - just that it's outside our perception.

    Therefore, isn't it just being open minded to the possibility that outside our perception there is a higher being... it's pretty hard to argue with that. Sorry for off topic, antitheists make me angry.

    Thank you ShyBoy!
    I'm just so fed up of going to pubs and chilling out and then having absolute wankers finding out that I study philosophy. We then discuss this and that and then God comes up. I don't lie for the fun of it. So when asked, I will say. I don't put my beliefs in everyone's face all the time.
    Then comes the chaos. So many people use my beliefs as a way of making themselves feel good about themselves. As soon as I say that I'm a faithful person so many people attack and attack and attack and try to make me realise that I'm worthless and I'm stupid.
    I may be worthless, but I'm definitely not stupid. ARGH!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    Good video :)
    I was quite surprised really - I wouldn't have thought they'd be so conservative there.

    ... Ronald Reagan was their Gov. before he became president if that tells you anything about the people in that state.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ... Ronald Reagan was their Gov. before he became president if that tells you anything about the people in that state.

    Given their current Govenor p'haps it suggests they like actors...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given their current Govenor p'haps it suggests they like actors...

    and are a bunch of pea-brained idiots. I mean Christ, there were legit candidates in that election, from both parties and even some third party candidates. But noooo, being able to talk about them having a "Govenator" was just too tempting.

    (Sorry to any Californians around. I'm not sorry about being offensive, just that you're from that state.)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    As I've been at pains to point out, I don't dispute this. But if individuals US states say they don't want to allow civil partnerships and the like, that's a matter for them. It's nonsense to claim that all the opposition to this comes from more religious persons. What about the sizeable proportion of people who think that being gay is somehow unnatural?
    Actually, most of the campaign funding came from religious groups, especially the Mormons.

    And this is about marriage, not civil partnerships. Same sex marriage apparently undermines conventional marriage... How does that have anything to do with simply thinking homosexuality is abnormal?

    Proposition 8 campaign video

    I don't see the harm in making a parody to be honest. It is far more unpleasent to discriminate against a group of people who just want the same set of rights as any other group, than to make a satirical video (which isn't maliscious tbh) with the intention of promoting human rights.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I don't see the harm in making a parody to be honest. It is far more unpleasent to discriminate against a group of people who just want the same set of rights as any other group, than to make a satirical video (which isn't maliscious tbh) with the intention of promoting human rights.


    I think you're very right here. People have been making satires out of popular issues since centuries and centuries and centuries ago. It's a very effective way of saying what you want and appealing to a wider audience, who might not have necessarily been aware of the issue any other way. It's very clever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Although the best joke I heard about the sadly passed prop 8 was when someone pointed out how bizarre it was for the Mormons to have spent so much money on a campaign that wanted marriage defined as the union between one man and one woman...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    Although the best joke I heard about the sadly passed prop 8 was when someone pointed out how bizarre it was for the Mormons to have spent so much money on a campaign that wanted marriage defined as the union between one man and one woman...

    Yes...That is a bit interesting! Haha!
    I find it interesting that the mormons would campaign full stop to be honest. Can they have any power outside their beliefs? Isn't it the case that government laws differ for them? Maybe I heard something wrong somewhere...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    And this is about marriage, not civil partnerships. Same sex marriage apparently undermines conventional marriage... How does that have anything to do with simply thinking homosexuality is abnormal?

    A marriage is a contract between a man and a woman, so I conclude that whatever this is about, it is not about marriage per se.

    As Aristotle said "A is A".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    Although the best joke I heard about the sadly passed prop 8 was when someone pointed out how bizarre it was for the Mormons to have spent so much money on a campaign that wanted marriage defined as the union between one man and one woman...

    Nah, the best part about it is that on the same ballot was a measure to increase the leg room for chickens being raised in factory farms

    So the good people of California decided;
    "Rights for chickens?" = Yes
    "Rights for fellow citizens?" = No


    I think it was on the Daily Show...
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