so the ID card scheme is being rolled out for foreign nationals...

Former Member

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5225907.ece

great


and it looks as if they've put in a mandatory clause to have one or face fine/arrest
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5162669.ece



most people dont want one or think it will be a failure, yet labour continues to push them, why? i'm never getting one myself even if they're made mandatory, quite frankly i'd rather go to prison than live in a virtual prison, least i get free food

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote: »

most people dont want one or think it will be a failure, yet labour continues to push them, why? i'm never getting one myself even if they're made mandatory, quite frankly i'd rather go to prison than live in a virtual prison, least i get free food

Well, you only need to look at the person in this government who's in charge of ID cards - it's New Labour's resident madwoman, Jacqui Smith. Yes, the very same Jacqui Smith who claims she has people coming up to her saying they're absolutely desperate to get their hands on ID cards. I'm not making this up.

Fancy seeing her arguments for ID cards being torn to shreds? See this.

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote: »

i'm never getting one myself even if they're made mandatory, quite frankly i'd rather go to prison than live in a virtual prison, least i get free food

:yes:

Former Member

Labour has to show they're doing something to control immigration. So whats better than using foreign nationals to pilot test our ID card, before everyone carries them

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote: »

i'm never getting one myself even if they're made mandatory, quite frankly i'd rather go to prison than live in a virtual prison, least i get free food

ID cards will be useless in the fight against terrorism or most crimes, and there are certainly concerns to be had regarding loss of personal data or identity theft, but suggesting having to carry one is akin to being in a virtual prison is taking things too far.

Indeed, some of the talk I've heard against it (to the lines of 'fundamental affront to personal liberty and freedom') would make one believe ID cards are only marginally less awful than being sent to concentration camps for 20 years. There are many arguments to be had against their introduction, but I have always found the virulent oppositon amongst the British public quite puzzling.

I have tried to explain this to friends and relatives in Spain, who have ID cards, and they can't honestly understand why it should be so much of an issue. They certainly don't feel their personal freedom and liberty are any less than anyone else's. Then again cards in Spain have no smartchip of any kind and cannot be used to monitor one's movements and activities.

I will agree that the issue of having to carry one while on the street is outrageous. But when you think about it, you do still need to have and present photo ID and other documentation when doing a variety of things from opening bank accounts to joining a video rental shop.

Former Member

Aladdin wrote: »

But when you think about it, you do still need to have and present photo ID and other documentation when doing a variety of things from opening bank accounts to joining a video rental shop.

We already have forms of ID which we can use for these purposes - passports and driving licences. Why the hell do we need another piece of plastic which confirms you exist?

Former Member

stargalaxy wrote: »

We already have forms of ID which we can use for these purposes - passports and driving licences. Why the hell do we need another piece of plastic which confirms you exist?

Oh I agree with that. I would simply describe it as another piece of pointless red tape and needless bourecracy by the government, rather than a grave threat to people's freedom and a 'virtual prison'.

Former Member

Because in the UK there's never been a need to carry an ID card - if you want to carry things voluntarily thats different, but its been a fundamental right of the British since 1951 (and before 1939) that the state cannot make us carry an ID card (1939-45 was WW2 and 1945-51 was old Labour).

OK it's not concentration camp stuff, but it is fundamentally altering the relationship between state and its people.

Former Member

I must say I've always admired how relaxed the British authorities/law are about that. IIRC you don't even need to carry your driving licence when driving, and if asked for it you have seven days to produce it. Try doing that in the Continent...

Former Member

Aladdin wrote: »

I must say I've always admired how relaxed the British authorities/law are about that. IIRC you don't even need to carry your driving licence when driving, and if asked for it you have seven days to produce it. Try doing that in the Continent...

I can't remember how long you need to produce it, but I never used to carry my licence with me when it was the old paper one.

That's why people see it as changing the relationship and a step in the wrong direction.

Former Member

Flashman's Ghost wrote: »

I can't remember how long you need to produce it, but I never used to carry my licence with me when it was the old paper one.

That's why people see it as changing the relationship and a step in the wrong direction.

As far as I remember the Road Traffic Act 1991 no longer compels you to be a holder of a licence.

Former Member

While not livining in Britain I have to ask what is the purpose of having a compulsory identity card?

People have identity cards, on credit cards with pictures, drivers license, passports etc. Can't really see the necessity of forcing ppl to have yet another card. The only logical scheme would be teens that have the need to prove their age and who aren't old enough to have drivers license or a credit card.

From a "foreign point of view" I'd say it'll come down to some people earning money on introducing it. Having more bureaucracy (some people have to get the info on to these cards) always means some jobs...

Former Member

Aladdin wrote:

Indeed, some of the talk I've heard against it (to the lines of 'fundamental affront to personal liberty and freedom') would make one believe ID cards are only marginally less awful than being sent to concentration camps for 20 years. There are many arguments to be had against their introduction, but I have always found the virulent oppositon amongst the British public quite puzzling.

Watched 'Taking Liberties' ?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3351275215846218544


It's just a viewpoint

Former Member

Aladdin wrote: »

I must say I've always admired how relaxed the British authorities/law are about that. IIRC you don't even need to carry your driving licence when driving, and if asked for it you have seven days to produce it. Try doing that in the Continent...

You don't even really need to produce it now either, unless you've been given a ticket.
The PNC computer is patched directly into the DVLA/MOT/Insurance/Excise licence databases.

Makes life hell of a lot easier, and it means it isn't an issue when people don't have the above on them.

Former Member

Does anyone know what they're going to do about the people (like me) who can't do the iris scan stuff?

Former Member

You'll be deported under the new regime, possibly to Guatemala.


Seriously they'll probably just keep it with just your fingerprints.