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Banker FUCKS still getting £2.5bn bonuses!

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
So after the Lehman Brothers bankers caused the bankruptcy of their company by overexposing themselves to subprime mortgages they knew poor people were unable to repay, and all other forms of toxic debt, the bankruptcy causing much greater ramifications through the global financial system, the New York office are still going to walk away with £2.5 BILLION pounds! http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article4795072.ece

The profits made by hedge fund short-sellers (betting that companies are going to go down in value / go bankrupt, and then starting self-fulfilling rumours to ensure this happens) goes to their gold-digger trophy wives £1m necklaces, £25,000 a year private schools, holiday homes which caused the housing bubble and more! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1058828/With-1m-diamond-necklace-Jamie-Cullum-performing-wedding--meet-UKs-hedge-fund-WAG.html

Hopefully the madness will now end!!
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    So after the Lehman Brothers bankers caused the bankruptcy of their company by overexposing themselves to subprime mortgages they knew poor people were unable to repay,


    You insult people by calling them poor.

    You're basically saying poor people shouldn't be given the opportunity to buy their own home.

    I know plenty of poor people that worked and saved to pay their mortgages and go without luxuries.

    I also know plenty of people that earn a good wage and have no money because they SPEND far too much on things they don't really need and buy their luxuries before settling other debts.

    There is a huge difference between being poor and being a "High Risk" financially.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DG wrote: »
    You insult people by calling them poor.

    You're basically saying poor people shouldn't be given the opportunity to buy their own home.


    You think encouraging a person with a below average income to take out a mortgage which is over 120% of their combined wage should be acceptable?

    That's exactly what the American banks were doing and it's come back and bitten them on the ass because surprise surprise they couldn't afford it.

    Poor people should be given oportunity to buy a house, but not mortages like the above.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    You think encouraging a person with a below average income to take out a mortgage which is over 120% of their combined wage should be acceptable?

    That's exactly what the American banks were doing and it's come back and bitten them on the ass because surprise surprise they couldn't afford it.

    Poor people should be given oportunity to buy a house, but not mortages like the above.

    Its slightly more complicated than that, the biggest issue which caused this mess was the seperation of the person giving out the loan and the person taking the risk.

    So, what happened was Bank A gave out a loan, it then sold this loan to someone else, who probably sold it on to another bank.

    Bank A now have no interest in whether or not the loan is paid back, in fact its in their interest to loan as much as possible for the commissions.

    It totally changed the way that mortgages were sold, it used to be just a good long term investment, it changed into a short term rush for as many commissions as you could get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's an utter abomination. The bank has gone into the wall. They should all go away with nothing. Rewards for gross failure like this is the very ugly face of capitalism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    It's an utter abomination. The bank has gone into the wall. They should all go away with nothing. Rewards for gross failure like this is the very ugly face of capitalism.

    Your politics really are confused, you want a government who stays out of peoples business, you complain about new laws, yet you want a government who controls the financial sector.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    Your politics really are confused, you want a government who stays out of peoples business, you complain about new laws, yet you want a government who controls the financial sector.
    You really are an idiot, aren't you? Where did I say anything about the government controlling the financial sector?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    that's the problem with a capitalist democracy, profits are privatised and losses are socialised. don't expect it to change anytime soon.

    oh and to the OP, there's nothing wrong with short selling in fact you can't have a healthy market without it. shorts covering and profit taking puts a floor under the market, and if you can't hedge a long position in a volatile market you are more likely to just sell. this latest move by various governments to ban short selling is another sign of desperation and is ultimately futile.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    You really are an idiot, aren't you?

    Do you talk to people like this in real life?

    I'd imagine you get beaten up a lot if you do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Now, now, careful now... No need for anyone to be calling anyone an idiot - or speculating on what people get up to in the privacy of their own homes... :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you talk to people like this in real life?

    I'd imagine you get beaten up a lot if you do.

    As if he would dare!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    Now, now, careful now... No need for anyone to be calling anyone an idiot - or speculating on what people get up to in the privacy of their own homes... :p
    Oh, we've known about that for months, Jim. :p

    Look, I'm sorry for calling Budda an idiot. But frankly, that comment was ludicrious. Where have I said that the government should try to control the financial sector? Obviously, some regulation is required - that's a necessary evil. But that's about as far as it should go.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Look, I'm sorry for calling Budda an idiot. But frankly, that comment was ludicrious. Where have I said that the government should try to control the financial sector? Obviously, some regulation is required - that's a necessary evil. But that's about as far as it should go.

    You can call me what you want SG, it wont in any way change the level of fear I feel for you.

    So you wouldnt control what bankers get bonuses then? I'm just curious as to how far you want the regulations to go, perhaps you think that the government controlling wages isnt control over the financial sector?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DG wrote: »
    You insult people by calling them poor.

    You're basically saying poor people shouldn't be given the opportunity to buy their own home.

    I know plenty of poor people that worked and saved to pay their mortgages and go without luxuries.

    I also know plenty of people that earn a good wage and have no money because they SPEND far too much on things they don't really need and buy their luxuries before settling other debts.

    There is a huge difference between being poor and being a "High Risk" financially.
    Oh for god's sake! This credit crunch was NOT caused by people earning a good wage spending too much on luxuries. That is NOT subprime. The crunch was caused by poor people being unable to pay off their subprime mortgages. Not all poor people couldn't pay it off, but a lot did. Like I saw an article on the weekend of an example subprime - some black single mother of 3 who had been out of work for 3 years, got a $103k subprime mortgage to get a property. There was no regulation really to stop mortgage brokers letting anyone have a property like that, but as much as its their fault its the poor people's as well for getting mortgages they surely know they'd be unable to afford, given they have err no income or whatever..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair the problem with the subprime market has nothing to do with people being unable to repay morgages. People have been unable to make morgage payments for as long as money lending has been around and theres always been people willing to risk money by investing in high risk loans.

    The problem was that the high risk sub-prime market was rated as a safe investment, causing a massive influx of investment. In a normal situation the amount of money invested in such high risk lending would be so low as to be irrelevant but here the many investors and funds thought they were getting something for nothing - a sudden untapped vein of secure loans.

    It's built to a massive cycle of lending against bad debt then selling it on as secure investments. The problem isn't the bad debt, it's pretending its secure in order to sell it at an overinflated value.

    The black woman in question is hardly to blame that five steps down the line her morgage is being passed on as the same as a rich black single mother's third home purchase.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    The black woman in question is hardly to blame that five steps down the line her morgage is being passed on as the same as a rich black single mother's third home purchase.
    What's pissing me off though is why on earth did someone like her accept to go for a $103k mortgage - she'd have known she'd have to pay it back in installments, and given she's been out of work for 3 years how on earth did she expect to do that? Obviously the facilitators providing this availability of credit are to blame, as they completely have been, but so should the people who take out mortgages they are blatantly unable to afford!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmm, here's an idea dunc -maybe she did think she could afford it?

    Maybe she could? But her circumstances changed?

    Although we aren't supposed to name call, you sound like an idiot in all honesty.

    The middle classes spending on their luxuries has had a massive impact on the current economic problems.

    The UK's personal debt is around 1.6 trillion £ at last count !

    Masses of people (more than ever) are not just defaulting on mortgages, its credit cards, loans, etc. Record numbers on IVA's and bankrupcy.

    It all counts towards the overall gloomy picture. If those people hadn't lend so much in personal debt, they would of paid their mortgage etc.

    Personally, I see plenty of stories on the forums from the middle classes in 6 figure credit card/loan debt and losing their houses etc.

    "Subprime" ISNT poor people - it has NOTHING to do with income!

    It is about the credit worthiness of an individual. I know people earning 30k+ (OK not astronomical wage but above average) who are on IVA's and could not get credit to save their lives ! If they did need a mortgage, or got one before going on the IVA, they would be subprime, as they are considered a risky lender!

    On the other hand, I bought my house, when my basic salary was only around 19K, I did have other enhancements (shift allowance, on-call, overtime) but the banks didn't really care about that - they credit scored me, it was good, I got a prime rate mortgage.

    If I earned 100K but was bankrupt, do you think I'd get good rates ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And what on earth the woman's skin colour had to do with it I really don't understand and quite frankly that post had undertones of racism and snobbery.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair, worth giving the benefit of the doubt - Doug was talking about a specific thing he'd seen or read about.

    But moving on people - does anyone think the bail-out is really going to help?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    But moving on people - does anyone think the bail-out is really going to help?

    no, it won't, you can't just make debt obligations disappear by passing the parcel, the bailout is not going to slow the rate of defaults or repossessions. all it does is move the bill from the banks to the taxpayer, which isn't really going to work as the average american is all tapped out.

    the only real options are letting the banks go to the wall and risk a disorderly unwinding in the global economy, or printing their way out, provoking capital flight and eventually repudiating on american debt. ben and hank are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What really gets my goat is that every single banker who works in the Square Mile gets tarred with the same brush. Retarded comments like 'banker fucks' serve to highlight gross ignorance on the part of people who understand very little of what actually has gone one.

    The credit crisis has been caused by a very, very small number of people. Even on a trading floor, only a very small number of people will be concerned with subprime derivatives and their ilk.

    What really highlighted this ignorance was the collapse of Lehman. Soooo many 'reader reaction' sections of most papers apart from the FT that I read were full of people delighting in the fall of Lehman, conveniently forgetting or being too stupid to realise that probably not even 1% of their work force were responsible. The plight of cleaners, receptionists, concierge, HR people, auditors, risk, and virtually every other staff member who doesn't get the large bonuses afforded to traders were funnily not mentioned. Most of it seemed to be schadenfreude masking jealousy that they were not paid that much.

    I consider myself a banker but I have nothing to do with trading, nor with derivatives, equities, FX, bonds etc. etc. So is this my fault?

    Don't tar us all with the same brush. The consequences of letting these banks and funds fail would be a lot worse than the Fed stepping in and saving them, trust me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think what gets people is that it seems in the financial sector cases of failure being rewarded by bonuses appear to be all too common.

    That L.B. awarded bonuses of more than £7bn in 2006, which is actually more than the debt it had when it went belly up some 18 months later, would be hilarious if it weren't tragic for the tens of thousands affected by its demise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    I think what gets people is that it seems in the financial sector cases of failure being rewarded by bonuses appear to be all too common.

    No different from the public sector, sadly.

    Bonuses are subject to the same market forces as everything else and will rise and fall with the economic tide. To say that they're obscene is a bit sweeping but generally accurate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmm, here's an idea dunc -maybe she did think she could afford it?
    She was unemployed, and had been for the last 3 years. How the fuck do you pay off $103k of mortgage when you're unemployed??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What really gets my goat is that every single banker who works in the Square Mile gets tarred with the same brush. Retarded comments like 'banker fucks' serve to highlight gross ignorance on the part of people who understand very little of what actually has gone one.

    The credit crisis has been caused by a very, very small number of people. Even on a trading floor, only a very small number of people will be concerned with subprime derivatives and their ilk.

    What really highlighted this ignorance was the collapse of Lehman. Soooo many 'reader reaction' sections of most papers apart from the FT that I read were full of people delighting in the fall of Lehman, conveniently forgetting or being too stupid to realise that probably not even 1% of their work force were responsible. The plight of cleaners, receptionists, concierge, HR people, auditors, risk, and virtually every other staff member who doesn't get the large bonuses afforded to traders were funnily not mentioned. Most of it seemed to be schadenfreude masking jealousy that they were not paid that much.

    I consider myself a banker but I have nothing to do with trading, nor with derivatives, equities, FX, bonds etc. etc. So is this my fault?

    Don't tar us all with the same brush. The consequences of letting these banks and funds fail would be a lot worse than the Fed stepping in and saving them, trust me.
    Completely disagree with this. Anyone who works for an investment bank deserves the same treatment - the main purpose of an investment bank is to produce obscene bottom-line profit, which exacerbates the rich/poor gap, through often unethical means as has been proven in the subprime crisis, and if you're a cleaner / in IT / an auditor / in HR etc, someway or another you are contributing to this, you are a cog helping the ugly wheel of capitalism turn, and if you had any sort of moral spine you wouldn't be working for an investment bank.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    capitalism is to blame? right lets all forget the policy makers who created negative interest rates, lets forget those who forced socialised organisations to underwrite 80% of the mortgage debt of the largest nation on the planet. lets all fucking ignore moral hazard la la it doesnt exist kill the bankers long live marx la la la. christ.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not often I agree with anything the Church says, but credit where it's due... :D

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7634641.stm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Completely disagree with this. Anyone who works for an investment bank deserves the same treatment - the main purpose of an investment bank is to produce obscene bottom-line profit, which exacerbates the rich/poor gap, through often unethical means as has been proven in the subprime crisis, and if you're a cleaner / in IT / an auditor / in HR etc, someway or another you are contributing to this, you are a cog helping the ugly wheel of capitalism turn, and if you had any sort of moral spine you wouldn't be working for an investment bank.

    Seriously, you need to get over yourself and go and live in some mythical land where capitalism doesn't exist if that's seriously what you think.

    So the receptionist deserves to be made redundant? The cleaners? The hordes of people who are earning very average salaries deserve to be made redundant because a small number of people got greedy? They're all in on it are they? If that's what you think, then I'd love some of what you're smoking.

    I suppose you don't care one jot that the City contributes around 9% of this country's GDP and the phenomenal tax revenues raked in from these companies and the high earners pay for schools, hospitals, roads etc. etc.

    It's only through the miracle of consumer capitalism and economies of scale that you're able to post these messages. You think that the computer, ISP etc. were fashioned by little old men in mud huts somewhere? Seriously, wake up and start living in the real world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Completely disagree with this. Anyone who works for an investment bank deserves the same treatment - the main purpose of an investment bank is to produce obscene bottom-line profit, which exacerbates the rich/poor gap, through often unethical means as has been proven in the subprime crisis, and if you're a cleaner / in IT / an auditor / in HR etc, someway or another you are contributing to this, you are a cog helping the ugly wheel of capitalism turn, and if you had any sort of moral spine you wouldn't be working for an investment bank.

    Unless you work for a charity, only ever use cash, grow your own food and produce your own electricity I assume you are just as much a part of 'the system' as the average cleaner in a bank.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    Unless you work for a charity, only ever use cash, grow your own food and produce your own electricity I assume you are just as much a part of 'the system' as the average cleaner in a bank.

    Also unless you work for a charity which gets 100% of its donation from private individuals who do not benefit from UK banking (ie no-one), you too benefit from them. They've been a massive boon to the UK economy over the last several hundred years - providing massive amounts of taxable income, both direct through corporation tax and indirect, through income tax etc.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Completely disagree with this. Anyone who works for an investment bank deserves the same treatment - the main purpose of an investment bank is to produce obscene bottom-line profit, which exacerbates the rich/poor gap, through often unethical means as has been proven in the subprime crisis, and if you're a cleaner / in IT / an auditor / in HR etc, someway or another you are contributing to this, you are a cog helping the ugly wheel of capitalism turn, and if you had any sort of moral spine you wouldn't be working for an investment bank.

    Wow - this is almost like a StarGalaxy/Kermit hybrid...?!
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