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Banker FUCKS still getting £2.5bn bonuses!

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calm down calm down.

    They have a point though, if you get a place for £750k on a £100k mortgage you're borrowing 7.5 times your income. That's not really good practice :/ I'm not a financial expert but you only need to do the maths.

    I think as a rule of thumb you should borrow up to about 3.5 times your income, obviously a bit more if there's two of you. But I don't know if I'm missing your point.

    Where I live you can get a semi detatched house for ~ £80k :d
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    They have a point though, if you get a place for £750k on a £100k mortgage you're borrowing 7.5 times your income. That's not really good practice :/ I'm not a financial expert but you only need to do the maths.
    Mate, bad maths!! Its unlikely a £750k 3-bed house will be the first property you buy, you may have a 2 bed apartment first, so you sell that, make £400k, put £350k of it down as deposit and voila there's a 4x mortgage. Anyway yeah, just note these days you put down at least 10%, and more like 20% down as deposit, and I think many can live comfortably getting a 4-4.5x not 3.5x mortgage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it changes depending on the mortgage companies it used to be just 2-3x as far as I know. You do make a good point about just building on the equity you have but it's kind of dependant on you paying off your first mortgage first..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Well it changes depending on the mortgage companies it used to be just 2-3x as far as I know.
    Wow, I got 5.8x 18mths ago. From... Northern Rock, hahaha
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Mate YOU'RE missing the point!!! Yes Kensington, Chelsea and Mayfair are expensive. So fucking what? Why do you need to live there? Only a complete twat would be like "Oh I can only possibly live in SW1, the rest of the country is VILEEE".

    I didn't say that, you idiot. Not in the slightest. I was pointing out, quite clearly, that in some areas, £750k - £1 million isn't going to get you a lot.

    Total bollocks.. fyi I live in the square mile, near St Pauls, lovely, clean, safe place, and my 800ft 2 bedroom apartment cost me £430k

    Well done you! :yeees:
    You can get a nice 3-bedroom house in London in a safe clean nice place for under £750k, and raising a family, paying the mortgage etc is comfortably affordable on £100k/yr or under.

    The only way you will get a £750k mortgage on £100k is if you have a huge amount of equity in a property already. If you have got a couple of hundred grand laying around in that respect, then all good. Not everybody does.
    Thinking £100k's not enough because it doesn't get you somewhere in Mayfair or South Ken is just pure greed, there's absolutely no need to have that #1 most expensive place in London.

    Oh, get off your high horse. Nobody said that.
    Proven given plenty of families get on more than comfortably with a combined salary of £40-50k.

    Some will do, but I defy you to disagree with the simple fact that a family who are not on the property ladder already are going to find it nigh on impossible to get on it if they only bring in £40-50k... and that goes for almost anywhere in London!

    THIS is the point people are making.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Mate, bad maths!! Its unlikely a £750k 3-bed house will be the first property you buy, you may have a 2 bed apartment first, so you sell that, make £400k, put £350k of it down as deposit and voila there's a 4x mortgage. Anyway yeah, just note these days you put down at least 10%, and more like 20% down as deposit, and I think many can live comfortably getting a 4-4.5x not 3.5x mortgage.

    Errr - who the FUCK makes £400k on a two bed apartment? Stop talking out of your arse. You will have had to have bought many MANY years ago to get even close, and even then, you will have to own in one of those super-expensive areas you were ranting about people just being greedy bastards to want to live in to even make the kind of selling price you are dreaming of.

    Which planet are you living on!? It would seem it is YOUR maths that is flawed, as your figures are just completely unrealistic.

    I will agree with you that a mortgage of 4-4.5x is really quite manageable though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Wow, I got 5.8x 18mths ago. From... Northern Rock, hahaha



    That is a little higher than I would be comfortable taking, personally... As long as you're comfortable with the payments though, I'm sure it's cool.

    I own a property up North which I bought on a 1.7x multiplier (£170k), interest only. It's rented out (to family) and just about pays for itself, so that's all good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Errr - who the FUCK makes £400k on a two bed apartment? Stop talking out of your arse. You will have had to have bought many MANY years ago to get even close, and even then, you will have to own in one of those super-expensive areas you were ranting about people just being greedy bastards to want to live in to even make the kind of selling price you are dreaming of.

    Which planet are you living on!? It would seem it is YOUR maths that is flawed, as your figures are just completely unrealistic.
    Lol, I didn't mean you make £400k profit, I mean you make back £400k on selling the property (which you may have bought for £300k or whatever)!
    g_angel wrote:
    Some will do, but I defy you to disagree with the simple fact that a family who are not on the property ladder already are going to find it nigh on impossible to get on it if they only bring in £40-50k... and that goes for almost anywhere in London!
    You honestly think people on £40-50k can't afford a mortgage?! That is way, way higher than the average a Londoner makes, and enough to afford a decent mortgage - no not a £750k 3-bed house in some posh-hole, but go out to zone 2/3/4 and something's fine on that amount.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Lol, I didn't mean you make £400k profit, I mean you make back £400k on selling the property (which you may have bought for £300k or whatever)!

    Glad we got that cleared up ;)

    You honestly think people on £40-50k can't afford a mortgage?! That is way, way higher than the average a Londoner makes, and enough to afford a decent mortgage - no not a £750k 3-bed house in some posh-hole, but go out to zone 2/3/4 and something's fine on that amount.

    Yes, I honestly do, especially in this market.

    Think about it, mate. It's not the payments that they won't be able to afford, but the deposit and just getting the mortgage. Few families have vast amounts of savings (children are expensive!!) and they're going to need something with 3 bedrooms (most likely). I've lived in Zones 2/3/4, and they really aren't as cheap as you would think!

    £250k is not going to buy you much at all, and that would be at a 5x multiplier AND at least a £25k deposit.

    £300k, well, you can do the maths, and you're really looking upwards of this for something nice.

    Maybe a couple of years ago, especially with your fellas, Norther Rock, they may have been able to get mortgage with such a high multiplier, but it would have been a stretch! Nowadays, honestly? It is going to be soooo hard for them, even if they are lucky enough to have saved up a suitable deposit.

    Shit times.
    That is way, way higher than the average a Londoner makes

    Just to pick up on this point a bit more. It may be more than the average Londoner makes, but then, the average Londoner lives in a rented house-share with a few pals, simply because they can't afford to buy.

    Again, unless you were lucky enough to buy a few years ago when the prices were a bit more.... reasonable, then buying now is tough.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    £250k is not going to buy you much at all
    For £250k -

    3 bed flat in Putney, SW15 - http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?bedrooms_from=3&price_from=175000&price_to=250000&prop_type=houses&property_id=634496&search_form=keyword&search_type=SS&submit_type=search

    3 bed house in Bishops Grove - http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?bedrooms_from=3&price_from=175000&price_to=250000&prop_type=houses&property_id=654541&search_form=keyword&search_type=SS&submit_type=search

    Excellent 3 bed house in Bushby Grove - a bit far out but still on the tube - http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?bedrooms_from=3&price_from=175000&price_to=250000&prop_type=houses&property_id=659135&search_form=keyword&search_type=SS&submit_type=search

    3 bed house in Pinner - http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?bedrooms_from=3&price_from=175000&price_to=250000&prop_type=houses&property_id=619163&search_form=keyword&search_type=SS&submit_type=search

    Some perfectly fine 3 bedroom houses, a bit far out but still accessible on the tube, 45min-1hr commute in, like most Londoners deal with.
    g_angel wrote: »
    Maybe a couple of years ago, especially with your fellas, Norther Rock, they may have been able to get mortgage with such a high multiplier, but it would have been a stretch! Nowadays, honestly? It is going to be soooo hard for them, even if they are lucky enough to have saved up a suitable deposit.

    Shit times.
    We're currently going through the shittest times ever and it won't be long before things get back to relative normality and getting a mortgage isn't that impossible again...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »

    I don't deny that there are houses available at those prices, but the fact is that people are still going to be unable to actually GET a mortgage without a 10-20% deposit! This simply means they are unable to buy!
    We're currently going through the shittest times ever and it won't be long before things get back to relative normality and getting a mortgage isn't that impossible again...

    I disagree completely. I think it will be a LONG time before we see anything like the mortgage offers of the last few years, if we see them again at all!

    To be honest, the last few years were the exception to the norm, and what we are experiencing now is the norm. It used to be tough getting a mortgage as you had to save for the deposit (hence proving you could manage your finances) etc. They then started throwing money around and things went down the shitter. You see what I mean?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    I don't deny that there are houses available at those prices, but the fact is that people are still going to be unable to actually GET a mortgage without a 10-20% deposit! This simply means they are unable to buy!
    £40-50k means about £2,500 a month after tax. Rent a standard zone-2 flat with friends for £600/mth each, live fairly prudently and save £1k/mth (I did this when starting in London, about £1.5k on average) for 2 years and voila you have your deposit, then you've mortgaged your 3-bed house no go bring up children etc if you want..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    £40-50k means about £2,500 a month after tax. Rent a standard zone-2 flat with friends for £600/mth each, live fairly prudently and save £1k/mth (I did this when starting in London, about £1.5k on average) for 2 years and voila you have your deposit, then you've mortgaged your 3-bed house no go bring up children etc if you want..

    Lol - aye, and again you've shifted the goalposts a bit.

    £40-50k for YOU is a lot, and your expenses will be far lower. Factor in a couple of kids (as in, the family we have been discussing), possible only one parent working, and you've a different kettle of fish. £2500 doesn't go quite as far when you have three, four or even five people living off it, certainly not enough to save a large chunk every month.

    Another point is you said yourself that £40-50k is way above average, which is true. What about the average joe, earning much less, which is what another focus was on when I last checked.

    You simply can't use something outside the norm to say that everybody should be able to do that. It just doesn't work!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Lol - aye, and again you've shifted the goalposts a bit.

    £40-50k for YOU is a lot, and your expenses will be far lower. Factor in a couple of kids (as in, the family we have been discussing), possible only one parent working, and you've a different kettle of fish. £2500 doesn't go quite as far when you have three, four or even five people living off it, certainly not enough to save a large chunk every month.

    Another point is you said yourself that £40-50k is way above average, which is true. What about the average joe, earning much less, which is what another focus was on when I last checked.

    You simply can't use something outside the norm to say that everybody should be able to do that. It just doesn't work!
    Well bottom line is, millions of people across the country, somehow, get on just fine having a housewife, 3+ kids, and a modest salary. Many still have a mortgage, they own 1 or 2 good cars, they all have the annual 2 week summer holiday to sunny Spain, no their kids aren't sent to Eton but its a fine comfortable life, without a needless 6 figure salary..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Well bottom line is, millions of people across the country, somehow, get on just fine having a housewife, 3+ kids, and a modest salary. Many still have a mortgage, they own 1 or 2 good cars, they all have the annual 2 week summer holiday to sunny Spain, no their kids aren't sent to Eton but its a fine comfortable life, without a needless 6 figure salary..

    But they're massively subsidised by the wealthy. If they had to pay for their own health care, education, roads, etc they'd be a lot worse off. The wealthy pay a lot more in taxes and massively subsidise the rest of us. If we tax the wealthy too high, you kill the cash cow.

    Still, lets not pretend this argument is anything to do with helping the poor or moderately off, it's the old 'hate the rich' argument dressed up in pretty clothes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still, lets not pretend this argument is anything to do with helping the poor or moderately off, it's the old 'hate the rich' argument dressed up in pretty clothes.
    I earn £80k, and its about to go up. By any normal person's standards that is 'rich'. No I don't hate myself thankyou. I've already discussed your point - you can tweak up taxes without massively reducing the number of people who flee. And the "draining the City of talent" argument is bollocks - right now most British bankers carry on paying 40% tax when they could easily pay much less moving to Dubai, Hong Kong, offshoring etc. And there's 100 applicants per banking place, of which easily 50 would be of good enough calibre to do the job well. Ramp up taxes and you'll see some people bugger off but always enough just-as-good-calibre replacements wanting to fill their shoes. Oh, and funnily enough, plenty of us have no problem whatsoever with the redistribution of wealth to people who have mostly not had the opportunities in life to get to where we are (I hate lazy scrounging dossers but most people at the bottom of the food chain are not like that, they're decent hard-working people).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But they're massively subsidised by the wealthy. If they had to pay for their own health care, education, roads, etc they'd be a lot worse off. The wealthy pay a lot more in taxes and massively subsidise the rest of us. If we tax the wealthy too high, you kill the cash cow.

    You can think about it a bit deeper though, in regards to the 'wealthy' and 'non wealthy' or proletariat and bourgeoisie as having a co dependent relationship. All this 'wealth' is created by the people lower down the chain for the people higher up the chain (consider that no employer would ever hire anybody unless they made a profit off that person - so by definition any employer is underpaying the value their staff gives - profit) and this is a good thing because profit goes back into circulation and we all get richer. The rich wouldn't be rich if it wasn't for the working class (that includes pretty much everyone except the top 5% with money to invest though so doesn't imply 'poorness') and part of this co-dependent relationship means this upper class whatever you like to call it should put back into social schemes to look after the working class.

    There is a good history of philanthropists giving back, but for the ones who are profit greedy and can only measure their own success by the margins of profit they give the rest a bad name. Taxation is just a way to make sure the balance is there and the working class isn't being exploited.

    Or, at least, that's one theory. One I happen to like over the radical marxist everyone with power / money will only seek to exploit everyone else in order to preserve their own estates (I mean, everyone is selfish at the end of the day aren't they?) which is why a capitalist system is fundamentally broken.

    I think of it more like a more sophisticated trade and barter system with these 'owning class' being a necessesity in order to organise collaboration of efforts, things like that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dunc2008 wrote: »
    Well bottom line is, millions of people across the country, somehow, get on just fine having a housewife, 3+ kids, and a modest salary. Many still have a mortgage, they own 1 or 2 good cars, they all have the annual 2 week summer holiday to sunny Spain, no their kids aren't sent to Eton but its a fine comfortable life, without a needless 6 figure salary..

    Yes, but chances are they are a fair bit older, live nowhere near bloody London, bought property years ago (when it was cheaper, yes, cheaper) etc, etc, etc.

    Getting bored with repeating this now.

    For young families, in and around London especially, not yet on the property ladder, things are going to be fucking tough, if not impossible to get on the property ladder, for at least the next few years.
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