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Gordon Brown's big mistake

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
He was in a no-lose situation last year. If he had called the election, he probably would have won with a smallish majority, but then when the Credit Crunch shoite hit the fan, he'd have had five clear years to sort it out.
There's no way things can be turned round before Summer 2010 and make this government look good.
The very worst scenario for Labout last year would have been a minority or very small majority Tory government, but then it would have been very easy to blame them for all that's going on right now, and their response would have been what the Tory response always is - cuts cuts cuts, taxes for the rich, services for the rest of us.
All the progressive parties would eventually have banded together to vote down yet more Tory budget cuts, and another election would have seen Cameron and his cronies cast out for another ten years.
Now 50% of the stupid people of this country are willing to put our future inthe hands of the corrupt self-serving toffs at the top of the Conservative Party, and Labour will probably be out for ten years. If Brown is so clever, he should have seen this global economic crisis coming. It isn't Labour's fault, it's the American global conditions, and believe me, if the Tories had been in, we'd have been in recession far earlier, because they have no scruples or social conscience about their policies.
The only hope is for Alan Johnson to come in. People have stopped listenint to Brown now, at least Johnson speaks ordinary people's language and isn't a fraud like 'Dave' Cameron.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree that getting rid of labour will be a bad thing. But I don't believe we need Alan Johnson - I think the labour party are just being stupid with their infighting which is creating uncertainty around Gordon Brown. When you're weathering the storm you don't need people whingeing and rocking the boat.

    As much as people love to hate him (and Tony Blair) I think they're both strong PMs with the right ideas. The only significant thing I disagree with them on is the exaggerated security procedures they have put in place to prevent terrorism.

    But it's politics, it's really just a game. Just make sure people vote for the party which has kept the country together through the last 10 years - terrorism, two wars, two outbreaks of foot and mouth, the threat of avian flu, and economic hardship. Not to mention all those floods!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel sorry for Brown to a certain extent. He became Prime Minister at precisely the wrong time and I don't think his illustrious predecessor is getting his fair share of the blame for the current mess.

    We've all become too used to spin, "smiling for the camera" and personality over good governance. Brown is nowhere near as charismatic as Blair was, but would soundbites and self-agrandisement really help ease the current problems?

    It may not be the popular opinion but given the scale of the problems, the current government haven't done a bad job at all. They've been honest (for once) and they've made some really tough decisions (Northern Rock).

    But I don't think, personally, that there is anyone in the current Labour ranks that is capable or experienced enough to take the step up to the top job, maybe Jack Straw but that's it.

    People get the leaders they deserve and I suspect at the next election we'll elect another media-obsessed, all-style no substance knee-jerker.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The posts above really shock me.

    For starters, they didn't save us or guide us through any tough time during the Iraq war, it was ILLEGAL and UNJUSTIFIED.

    It was completely appaulaing and over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died! What right did we have to go there and do that? When the UN did not sanction it? We have made a mockery of the international legal system, and on top of that, caused almost all of terrorism threat that is occurring today.

    Before September 11th, who had heard of Al Qaida or all the fuss around Muslim terrorists?

    On top of that, you have the disgusting attack on Lebanon by Israel which was sanctioned by silence by the UK and US. Another appauling attack.

    With regards to the economy problems not being their fault, how stupid can you be? The banks and financial institutions should and should always have been tightly monitored and regulated. Especially if poor practices on their part lead to problems on this scale !

    Half of the problem which caused it is house prices also being let to go so high in the first place!

    Every government in the world is doing the typical politician thing and blaming the fact it's "global" and "unprecedented".

    Lehman Bros was founded in the 1800s and AIG I believe in 192x - these companies have lived through the great depression, yet this brings them down? That's how fucked up things have gotten!

    On top of that, Northern Rock was a fuck up IMHO. If they were going to do the public bail out scenario, then all they needed to do in the first place was put out a security for 100% of deposits in NK and the bank would not have even gone under! This means it would not have had to be publicly nationalised, and also the share price and value of the company would have stayed higher. Far too slow and late. At least they didn't make the same mistake with HBOS.

    As far as my current thinking goes, I will be voting Lib Dem at the next election.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thing is, I realise what that kind of thinking will cause. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars are both controversial and unpopular for a host of reasons (but thats a debate for another thread) but the fact remains we should be thinking of the next 5 years not the last 10.

    It is a two party system and a vote for anyone other than labour is a vote for the conservatives and frankly in times of economic slowdown I am scared of what cuts to public spending they might implement. It will be the needy who feel it first, rest assured.

    Ultimately nobody likes any political party. As a satirist said the other night on telly "We blame the government for everything that goes wrong, we should thank them for things that go well too. So thankyou Gordon Brown, that leg of lamb last night was lovely.".

    I am not voting labour at the next election because I think they're great, but I think the alternative is quite scary really. Also the whole economy fiasco is predominantly down to ties with America. Look at any graph showing houseprices, you know what boom and bust are. But because the American dollar was weak 8 years ago GWB made several measures to change things and artificially inflate the value. You artificially create big booms, you manufacture big busts.

    The UK has a pretty good record on public borrowing and inflation so the effects we will feel will be comparitively less.

    I agree that lib dems make a good case but I'm pretty youngish and even I've noticed they are a blatantly populist party. To quote cameron as much as I don't think he would be the best thing for the country 'A good government needs to be able to do what is right and not what is popular'.

    Lib dems may as well say we will buy everyone a McDonalds who votes for us. So you have two choices.

    Labour or conservative. Weather the storm or jump in a boat with some idiot who thinks he knows the answers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe if Brown hadn't constantly vetoed Tony Blair's desire for Britain to enter the Euro things wouldn't be so grim... despite this 'global' economic downturn the pound has been plummeting - 'global' economic crisis or not, when things were good we should have entered the Euro. There's lower interest rates, lower inflation and higher growth in the Eurozone - Blair was right. It's unfortunate he never stood up to Brown... Brown being a control freak, ceding any more power to Europe was never on the cards.

    Brown's big mistake? He's fucked up the economy. The one solid claim Labour had was the economy. That's gone. And since we keep hearing about how 'global' this crisis is, it's interesting to compare Brown's approval ratings with other international leaders. Brown's incompetence has made a bad situation worse. The Labour Party lacks the courage to replace Brown with a capable alternative - and therefore the ensuing landslide loss at the next election is totally deserved.

    And tbh, Blair would be too wise to consider making a return... :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Calling an election at a time when you could easily win it is practically a non-brainer. It wouldn't require much courage to go to the country at such a time, especially when as a Prime Minister, nobody elected you to the job. So what does Macavity do? Yep, he just buries his head in the sand and eventually decides not to call one when he sees a poll in the newspapers saying he just might lose. He panicked and just about everything he's attempted since has gone tits up. Courage is clearly not something that Gordon knows anything about. One look at the man can confirm that he is a vote loser, which is why the Labour Party should keep him in charge. Every day that he remains as PM reduces the odds of Labour remaining in government when Broon is forced to go to the country eventually.

    His conduct at the moment is nothing less than pathetic. He tries to pretend that the speculation concerning his leadership is not distracting him, when we can see clearly that it is. In interviews this week, he took all the credit for everything good that happened economically in the last few years, yet refuses to accept any responsibility for our current difficulties. Whenever questioned about the doubts to his leadership or to almost anything, he comes out with pre-prepared lines about "getting on with the job" and "making difficult decisions". You're not fooling yourself Gordon, and you're definitely not fooling the rest of us. You are a charlatan, an opportunist and a liar - you do not deserve to be Prime Minister.

    This is what happens when someone does not have to fight to get the top job in politics - you end up with a pathetic excuse for a human being doing it. A man with no ideas, no vision, no charisma and, judging by his conduct as PM, no brain either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you hate Blairs charm and charisma, you hate Browns dullness.

    Unless a government created world peace, would you be happy?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gordon Brown is probably the most boring, uninspiring PM we've ever had in living memory - he doesn't actually appear to do anything different from what he's been doing for the last decade as Chancellor.

    He also doesn't have the luxury of being able to blame the previous government or PM so he can't say to the people how he's different to the previous PM and what he's going to do that new and improved.

    People will vote for Cameron because they think he's more down to earth then Brown and mainly because he's NOT Gordon "Boring" Brown

    Being boring is fine if people can see you have a vision for the future and are working towards those goals but Brown is a bean counter - his latest Stamp Duty Holiday only helps people in certain parts of the country and does nothing for places like London. Gordon Brown is all about moving the beans from one place to another place. Brown doesn't do anything new.

    Every government gets too cocky when they've been in power for too many years. Labour have out stayed their welcome .. people have already seen changing the leader of the party from Blair to Brown makes no difference at all .. so people aren't going to vote Labour again even if there is a new Leader other then Brown UNLESS it's someone really well known and liked .. or someone who's seen as a Maverick like Ken Livingstone who's got relevant experience and not afraid to make big changes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DG wrote: »
    Gordon Brown is probably the most boring, uninspiring PM we've ever had in living memory - he doesn't actually appear to do anything different from what he's been doing for the last decade as Chancellor.

    He also doesn't have the luxury of being able to blame the previous government or PM so he can't say to the people how he's different to the previous PM and what he's going to do that new and improved.

    People will vote for Cameron because they think he's more down to earth then Brown and mainly because he's NOT Gordon "Boring" Brown

    Being boring is fine if people can see you have a vision for the future and are working towards those goals but Brown is a bean counter - his latest Stamp Duty Holiday only helps people in certain parts of the country and does nothing for places like London. Gordon Brown is all about moving the beans from one place to another place. Brown doesn't do anything new.

    Every government gets too cocky when they've been in power for too many years. Labour have out stayed their welcome .. people have already seen changing the leader of the party from Blair to Brown makes no difference at all .. so people aren't going to vote Labour again even if there is a new Leader other then Brown UNLESS it's someone really well known and liked .. or someone who's seen as a Maverick like Ken Livingstone who's got relevant experience and not afraid to make big changes.

    the problem with the opposition is that they're already too cocky for their own good, smug gits

    don't know which of the 2 main parties i hate more, and i wish the lib dems would clear their position up a bit better however i only see the lib dems as the closest thing to a party that will give us back mroe of our rights, i think the tories will be like blair but worse

    blair and brown are exactly the same thing really, just one was the smiley version of the other....

    people did get what they voted for though, apart from tuition fees which went agaisnt the manifesto
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    So you hate Blairs charm and charisma, you hate Browns dullness. Unless a government created world peace, would you be happy?
    What I want to see ultimately is a small government which stays out of people's lives as much as possible, led by an incredibly boring but competent person. As long as a politician does a good job, they can be as dull as they bloody well like. What we currently have is the opposite of almost all that - a stupidly large government which interferes more and more in people's lives each day, led by a pathetic joke of a man with an ego which far exceeds his talents. That's why I have it in for Macavity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But in my experience, people cant as a whole manage their lives.

    How do you have a small government, i mean theres only so much a very small number of people can do. Are you advocating a culling of the number of MP's thereby reducing the number of people that the public can go see when they have a problem?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    What I want to see ultimately is a small government which stays out of people's lives as much as possible, led by an incredibly boring but competent person. As long as a politician does a good job, they can be as dull as they bloody well like. What we currently have is the opposite of almost all that - a stupidly large government which interferes more and more in people's lives each day, led by a pathetic joke of a man with an ego which far exceeds his talents. That's why I have it in for Macavity.

    Well it will be people on low incomes that will suffer when the Tories get back in. They are being all nice for the newspapers now, but if you actually read their full blown documents there is a raft of nasty measures in there.

    Yes Brown is boring, yes he could have done more to ease this economic situation, yes there is Lebanon, Iraq and all the terrorism legislation. But I'd still rather have him than Cameron.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A cynic would say its in left wing organisations interests to keep people poor and supportive of them and for the right wing to have as many people as possible wealthy and supportive of them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    But in my experience, people cant as a whole manage their lives.
    Josef Stalin would be proud of you, comrade.
    How do you have a small government, i mean theres only so much a very small number of people can do. Are you advocating a culling of the number of MP's thereby reducing the number of people that the public can go see when they have a problem?
    Well, I certainly wouldn't shed a tear if we literally culled some of our MPs - the utterly wretched Keith Vaz should be first in that queue. How many people actually go to see their MP when they have a problem? Very few, I would suggest. An MP has virtually no power as it is. Most of them are just yes-men, simply in place in order to give the ruling party an easy life.

    Now you're one of those posters who's quite keen on distorting innocent statements that I and other people make. I don't know, maybe you get a buzz out of it. So let me explain what I'm talking about. By "small government", I mean one that stays out of people's lives as much as possible, one which doesn't make thousands of stupid new laws that make no sense, one that doesn't clobber the poor with tax rises. This government has introduced well over 3000 new laws since coming to power. Can we honestly say this country is better governed because of it? This government has made utterly shameful move of abolishing the 10p tax band, meaning that the poorest people in society are worse off. These are the ones which Nu-Lab pretends to give a shit about. For this alone, Labour deserves a long period on the opposition benches.

    We saw Macavity then refuse a referendum on the European constitution, despite the Labour Party explicitly promising one in their 2005 manifesto. He used the blatant lie that the "treaty" was somehow different to the constitution which voters in France had given a kicking to. People should have torn Gordon Brown to shreds over those lies he was allowed to get away with. And then we had the pathetic spectacle of Gordon introducing 42-day detention without charge. Now, considering all this, give me one good reason why he deserves to remain Prime Minister.
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