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Music Production

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bloody hell, I was thinking of having a crack at this but it looks like it will take a lot of time to get into... how long did it take for you to become competent, James?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its not all as complicated as it sounds lol...

    Music production is very much one of them things where its as complicated as you wanna make it... the deeper you go the better the results you will get.

    What I have gone through there is music synthesis, i.e creating a sound from nothing (well almost) and it can get really complicated.


    He could just have easily used a sample from a sample pack that sounded like that and put some effects over it. Also most of these things come with preset sounds you can use which are great when your starting out.

    I have been producing music for about 9 years... but its only in the last year or so I have taken it seriously and started to learn the real ins and outs. I also brought myself a little studio set up.

    Before I just used to use samples and presets and I got some ok results...

    www.myspace.com/zerobeatsuk <-- all that was done before I started taking things really seriously (them tracks are a few years old)... its all done using not too indepth know how.

    Now days I'm learning to make things from scratch...

    I made this bassline in Thor the other day which I was pretty happy with for like a rolling Dnb tune.. its got nice movement to it I think..

    www.zerobeats.co.uk/bass.mp3
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I just througt of this tune after reading this thread... its a dub step tune that I have been working on recently.

    Its a million miles from finished and the bassline is a bit bland, but it has that kind of build up your talking about just before the drop GF. Also I just used a sample (after banging on about making it from scratch :blush: )

    www.zerobeats.co.uk/bass-01.mp3

    I made the bassline from this in Thor too actually...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You bloody legend. Thanks a bunch man! I've got something to work with now :D

    Btw, awesome sample! :D Give it to theeeeem!
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Cool thread :cool:

    Think it fit well in the creative forum.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well i may as well blabber away on here.

    I've been watching a load of these "In the Studio with ..." videos recently and its pretty cool to see how all these big names do there stuff but one thing they seem to miss out on is bass, getting the best out of your bass.

    I bought "Music Tech" magazine yesterday (the geek i am) .. rip off but there was an interesting article on how to get the best out of bass and what you should be doing. How you should try and incorporate the different range of frequencies into your bass. I understand what its on about, i think.

    So have a low frequency bass, then layer it up with a mid and high frequency bass, to give it more of an oompf?

    But anyway, more to the point. How did you get such a fat sounding bass in Thor? Did you use all three of the oscillators and just tweak about with it until you got the sound? Or did you add another Thor on top of it?

    :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The low end frequencies of bass are usually called sub bass. If you look at sub bass in a frequency analyzer it will be hitting hardest at around 20-40hz.
    It sounds deep but there is no real melody to it.

    Layering a sub bass with something that has a bit of mid range punch and a bit of high end will give a much fatter sound.

    With the bassline I did there was quite alot of processing. I did one Thor using 2x Multi Oscillators (Which were slightly De-Tuned) and one standard analog oscillator which was possibly set to a square wave, I cant remember now.
    I then added an EQ and tweeked the mid / high range. I added a Chorus from within Thor which makes the sound a lot wider and then I ran it through a scream distortion and finally a compresser. (There was probably more than that, I cant remember off hand.)

    I added a second Thor purely for the sub bass. If you put in an Analog Osc, you will see 4 shapes with red buttons by them... these are sound waves... by default the top one is selected which is a Saw wave.. thats the most common one, its got a good gritty sound to it. For sub bass you want a sine wave (I think its the bottom one, or the one above that). You will know when you have selected a sine wave because as I said its just bass... no real melody...

    Layer these things together and keep processing them.

    The movement I got from the sound was by routing an LFO through the cut off frequency of filter one, and then modulating the speed at which it 'wobbles' if you like...

    If you want me to be more specific about anything feel free to ask.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tbh, sound on sound, music production, computer music, and future music, are all total rip offs. it always helps to have a good book on the program you are using, but i think that logic is a lot more complex than reason and you may not need one else you decide to "upgrade".

    i'll pass on any notes i think might be helpful from my lecture if you want
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tbh, sound on sound, music production, computer music, and future music, are all total rip offs. it always helps to have a good book on the program you are using, but i think that logic is a lot more complex than reason and you may not need one else you decide to "upgrade".

    i'll pass on any notes i think might be helpful from my lecture if you want

    Oh yeah totally. If i could i would use Logic but fact of the matter is i dont have the money to get a mac and logic atm.

    But sure send away :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tbh, sound on sound, music production, computer music, and future music, are all total rip offs. it always helps to have a good book on the program you are using, but i think that logic is a lot more complex than reason and you may not need one else you decide to "upgrade".

    i'll pass on any notes i think might be helpful from my lecture if you want

    I really like computer music, the fact that every edition comes with 7GB's worth of samples and software along is pretty good... but the producer masterclass turotials that come with it are great...

    I enjoyed the last one by Rusko.

    Goodfella... if you do decide to move on at any point then you wanna go cubase. Its alot more complex than Reason so I would stick to that for now.

    Cubase rivals logic, and although its not quite as good I think it lives up to it pretty well and it by far the best production software on the PC.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PRO TOOLS!

    much much much better than cubase for PCs!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have never used it to be honest...

    I have been told as a rule of thumb Pro Tools is the best if your working with live music, where as Cubase is best for electronic music.

    I'm all self taught tho so I don't know all the in's and out's.

    End of the day I suppose its personal preference. I know some of the top producers in Drum & Bass use Fruity Loops.. I have always viewed that as a beginners tool...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think alot of the top producers use Fruity Loops, i remember i heard DeadMau5 uses it to come up with some quick piano rolls and beats as its simple to use. But obviously he uses other bits of software for his other sounds.

    I'm sticking with Reason for now :)
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    A lot of my mates who are into their producing use FL, the rest use Cubase.
    I've mucked around in FL because I think it's quite user friendly but have never had the time to get into it properly. Would love to but I'm just too busy. One day.

    Some free sample packs for you from Luna-C.
    http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/music/sample-packs

    Worth noting for anybody that likes there hardcore breaks that Luna-C's also decided to GIVE AWAY ALL tracks, in full, from Kniteforce and related labels. That's a lot of music.
    http://www.kniteforcerevolution.com/music
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If any of your guys are geting into this seriously, then i can't suggest logic or pro tools more. i know some people in the industry (but mainly in america) use ableton, but i've tried so many of these programs, when i started training as a sound engineer, i used cubase, and before fruity loops and other base level software. but even the supposedly "industry standard" software doesn't compare to logic and PT.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've just got a copy of Cubase, just to have a look at and im already lost :p

    No way as user friendly, also what VST instruments should there be as default? Im guessing i have a dodgy version :p
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    Theres a lot of debate both on the net and IRL about the best software to use but I know a a couple of serious producers in the D&B and Hardcore scene who've had no problems releasing tracks they've created in Cubase, Reason and Fl.

    They've always been of the opinion that as long as your end product is what you were aiming for it really doesn't matter what your tools are. How true that is I don't know?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Theres a lot of debate both on the net and IRL about the best software to use but I know a a couple of serious producers in the D&B and Hardcore scene who've had no problems releasing tracks they've created in Cubase, Reason and Fl.

    They've always been of the opinion that as long as your end product is what you were aiming for it really doesn't matter what your tools are. How true that is I don't know?

    Thats spot on in my opinion mate... I have heard shit tunes done by people with lots of know how and all the right equipment, and I have heard great tunes by people doing it on a crappy old PC in there bedroom... obviously I have heard vis versa as well...

    Bottom line is how creative you are.

    GF, a VST stands for Virtual Studio Technology and its basically a software instrument or effect plug in...

    You see how in Reason you might use a Thor to make a bassline, well thats effectivly a VST for reason (although reason doesnt actually use VST's cos everything is internal)

    Cubase does come with some in built VST's and plugins, but they aint that good...

    Just to show you one, open cubase.. start a new project. Click on Devices (at the top) and then VST Instruments, in the drop down box next to 1. select Synths and then select A1.
    Next click project (at the top), Add Track, and then MIDI. Finally on the left hand side in the information about your MIDI track, you should see an IN and an OUT. Drop down the box and make the OUT go to A1.

    At the bottom of that bar you should see the word A1, to the right of that is three keys of a keyboard (next to the big E) click that and it will show you the A1 synth.

    But to make Cubase worth using you need to download external plugins. I could recommend some VST's to download, but I dunno if your going to stick with reason or carry on down this route?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reminds me of this track... its by Rusko and called Rats in my kitchen.

    He uses a really basic program called Acid Pro to make tunes on his home PC. You can tell the tune is pretty under produced (although that does sum up some dubstep), but he does really well for himself and after the first time I heard it I couldnt get it out my head.

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V7eEE-L8cu0

    (the youtube vid is a bit shit quallity)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah give us a few plugins and what not, may as well. Something for me to muck about with :) Cheers for all the help btw!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If any of your guys are geting into this seriously, then i can't suggest logic or pro tools more. i know some people in the industry (but mainly in america) use ableton, but i've tried so many of these programs, when i started training as a sound engineer, i used cubase, and before fruity loops and other base level software. but even the supposedly "industry standard" software doesn't compare to logic and PT.

    Cubase isn't really entry level software :).

    There is a lot of snobishness with producers, especially the ones that use high end DAW's and other products and it gives a new producer a clouded view of what they can use because it's all "omg if you don't use Logic then you suck and can't make decent music". Yeah they are fab products but they are in no way the be all and end all of DAW's. There is so much choice out there that you use whatever you feel conformable with using and not what other people tell you, there are loads of well known producers that use Reason and FL Studio and you can make high quality release worthy music, it's not what you use, it's how you use it, and any producer worth their salt will tell you that as well.

    Hell, Burial uses Sound Forge to produce.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was wondering how one software package can be "better" than another. What would that mean: More complex? More functionality? More expensive?!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well from my liited experience i would say that software like Cubase and Logic would have more functionality to it? Maybe im wrong. But for instance i've been essing about with sidechain compression in reason and its just a pain in the arse (for me anyway) to set it all up with all the wiring of the rack. Whereas from what ive seen with programs such as Logic its a pretty simple case of assigning it to the right channel etc

    Maybe i'm totally wrong :p and that doesnt show that ones better then the other of course, just my opinion.

    I find Reason really easy to use though, you know where everything is and its pretty simple to get down your ideas. Whereas with Cubase it took me a while to figure out what the hell i had to press etc

    Is it a case of the more complex it is, the better it is? I'm not sure, like alot of people have said, i've heard plenty of very well made tracks made with Reason and its supposed to be a step down from Logic and Cubase.

    Reason i think is the perfect program to use if you're totally new to it all or maybe even FL(but i havent used that yet), i'm going to stick with it for a while i think and then eventually move over to Cubase :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Btw found this link on making that "Whoosh" sound i was on about, on Beatportal. Basically follows up on what you guys said :)

    http://www.beatportal.com/feed/item/production-master-class-the-whoosh/
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fucking gutted! :( My laptop died this morning so had to reformat everything! Lost all the stuff i was working on and well .. everything on my laptop!

    Back to the beginning for me...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Makoto wrote: »
    Cubase isn't really entry level software :).

    There is a lot of snobishness with producers, especially the ones that use high end DAW's and other products and it gives a new producer a clouded view of what they can use because it's all "omg if you don't use Logic then you suck and can't make decent music". Yeah they are fab products but they are in no way the be all and end all of DAW's. There is so much choice out there that you use whatever you feel conformable with using and not what other people tell you, there are loads of well known producers that use Reason and FL Studio and you can make high quality release worthy music, it's not what you use, it's how you use it, and any producer worth their salt will tell you that as well.

    Hell, Burial uses Sound Forge to produce.
    i wasn't saying that cubase was entry level, but fruity loops is. yeah i agree, there is a lot of snobbishness about if you don't logic or pro tools then you aren't able to produce good music, and i don't agree, it is the skill, but my personal preferance is for logic.

    and Gf, BACK UP!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know i know, i had the majority of my music and films backed up .. just hadn't backed up my Reason stuff!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wrote a reply in here earlier about recommendations for VST's and it looks likes its been deleted... weird. I can't be arsed to do it again now!!

    Gutted about losing your stuff GF. anything you cant get hold of again?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JamesZero wrote: »
    I wrote a reply in here earlier about recommendations for VST's and it looks likes its been deleted... weird. I can't be arsed to do it again now!!

    Gutted about losing your stuff GF. anything you cant get hold of again?

    Nah i can get hold of everything again. More of an annoyance then anything else really.

    Just have to start again!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey, for the Reason users, shall we make some patches so others can use and learn from them?
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