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Unarmed combat

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
I may never achieve the unrelenting viciousness of my best mate who when set upon by thugs, dropped them no problem but ran a risk of having a thug sue her in a court of law for GBH. So I am keen on learning a more passive form of unarmed combat and are considering Aikido.

I was told the martial art "Aikido techniques are normally performed by "blending" with the motion of the attacker, rather than directly opposing the attack". So.. would Aikido be an effective form of unamed combat that would ensure I don't end up on the wrong side of the British legal system? In the meantime I'll first have to get my shoulder better after a recent pratfall off my quad bike, then get my body toned up from aerobic activity. Are there any advocates of Aikido or have you an alternate, passive form?

Poppi
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it's self defence its self defence but if you just want to beat someone up then it doesnt really matter what method of fighting you use its still going to land you in hot water.


    Like I always say, the best way to win fights is to avoid them. If they're unavoidable then unless you are highly trained the moves you learn probably aren't going to help, more often than not its about who can get the most hits in.

    I know people who say they want to learn how to disarm someone with a knife or a gun, but seriously why the hell if someone pulls a knife do you -not- want to just get the heck out of there. That's just a little aside of mine though...

    I think anything will help you build confidence and fitness which in the unfortunate situation of a scrap will probably help. A few clever moves wont hurt too. But like I said, unless you are very skilled you aren't going to get away from a fight without a scratch and its always better to avoid them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's true that a fairly high skill level would be necessary to be a good fighter, however some of the basics are more immediately useful. For example, simple things like protecting your head and chest, stances and deflecting blows. Of course this would help more with damage limitation, or at least protection until an escape is possible.

    It would certainly be benefitial to someone being attacked if they had a more advanced knowledge of how to transfer energy from an incoming blow elswhere, and counter-attack if necessary. It is also useful to be able to create space between yourself and an attacker, or close up the space, and use the resulting space or proximity to your advantage (depending on the style). Also obviously being able to strike effectively is an important skill, but not a requirement.

    While it may be true that in most fights the person landing the most blows will come out best off, some knowledge of martial arts and fighting goes a long way. People in most drunken brawls fight clumsily and stupidly, which is a weakness against a trained fighter.

    This isn't to say that a bit of martial arts training will turn anyone into Bruce Lee - in Taekwondo someone with a 1st Dan is still regarded as a beginner. Also some martial arts are definitely more difficult to apply to the street than others.

    If you go for something like Aikido or Jujitsu there will primarily be a focus on grappling, i.e. generally more defensive with throws, holds, locks, etc. For striking Kung Fu or Wing Chun would be useful for close-up combat, not so much at a distance. Finally Taekwondo or Karate would be more useful at a distance with more of an emphasis on kicking. I suggest trying a few out to see how they feel - even just watching a few sessions, you can get a feel for the style.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The law has *just* been changed in the criminal justice and immigration act 2008 which helps to define what a reasonable use of force is in different circumstances.

    It doesn't really change anything, but makes things clearer. Bottom line is, if you're being attacked and you defend yourself with unarmed combat, then it's tough shit if you're attacker gets a kicking. It's only excessive force if you put the boot in once they're on the ground.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be perfectly honest i think learning any kind of martial art is pretty pointless if your idea behind learning is to win a fight or two.
    Only things it would teach you would be speed and control, i myself did shotokan karate for about 7 years from the ages of about 9-16, as did a few of my friends. We've been in street fights since then, the moves and blocks learnt didn't really see light of day and it all resorts back to who can hit hardest, first.
    You really want to win? take a psychology class
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    icey wrote: »
    To be perfectly honest i think learning any kind of martial art is pretty pointless if your idea behind learning is to win a fight or two.
    Only things it would teach you would be speed and control, i myself did shotokan karate for about 7 years from the ages of about 9-16, as did a few of my friends. We've been in street fights since then, the moves and blocks learnt didn't really see light of day and it all resorts back to who can hit hardest, first.
    You really want to win? take a psychology class



    agreed, when we get taught unarmed defence the only fancy moves we're taught are restraints.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    agreed, when we get taught unarmed defence the only fancy moves we're taught are restraints.

    was it you that said something about using an elbow to clear space between you and an attacker when they tried to nick your car?

    It could have been someone else... I don't know.

    So what's the psychology behind winning a fight then? Make yourself look big, a la bear psychology, or pretend to be dead?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    Most jap slapping is pretty useless on the street I think you'll find. If you want to actually learn how to fight I would suggest boxing or kick boxing where proper sparring is common - where you'll learn not only learn how to hit somebody but how to take a proper hit too. A lot of emphisis is put on training in boxing too - boxers are super fit.

    Still jap slapping has it's advantages. It builds confidence, and confindence plays a very big part in the outcome of a lot fights. Ad of couse it's a good social hobby.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    So what's the psychology behind winning a fight then? Make yourself look big, a la bear psychology, or pretend to be dead?

    Don't hestitate. Hit them first, fast and hard and don't stop until you know they're not going to get back up and fight you. There no rules to fighting either. Anyhting goes.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My reasons are I am not by nature an aggressive person. Fact is I’m very passive which is why I think Aikido would best suit. Call me a softy but I would not retaliate with a punch if threatened and Aikido focuses not on this punching or of kicking opponents in combat, but rather the individual uses their own energy to gain control of an attacker. This entails using Aikido's philosophy and principles to cast an attacker away from me; if you would pardon my greenness - similar to casting a net. I’m going to find qualified instructor, then proceed from there. Many thanks all for your encouragements, also your contribution, Wooooah (great handle!).

    Best,
    Poppi
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I’m going to find qualified instructor, then proceed from there. Many thanks all for your encouragements, also your contribution, Wooooah (great handle!).
    Sounds like a good idea, as Skive said if nothing else it's a good confidence builder. For someone not accustomed to violence I think boxing or kick boxing would be a bit of a shock.
    Skive wrote: »
    Most jap slapping is pretty useless on the street I think you'll find. If you want to actually learn how to fight I would suggest boxing or kick boxing where proper sparring is common - where you'll learn not only learn how to hit somebody but how to take a proper hit too. A lot of emphisis is put on training in boxing too - boxers are super fit.
    I agree a lot of martial arts aren't useful on the street, but you might be suprised at the amount of sparring and fitness training at many clubs. And a swift kick to the temple would be far from useless!
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    And a swift kick to the temple would be far from useless!

    If you managed to get them to hold still why you did it yes. I really would have though precison high kicks in a sreet fight are your best bet. Far easier, faster and more effective just to plant your head on their face.

    Street fighting is quite different than any martial art. It involves true agression by the attacker, multiple attackers, weapons of all shapes and size and there are no rules.
    Most jap slapping you'll learn in this country won't prepare you for half of that. But it can't do you any harm. :D
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    jap slapping??

    omg. its not like its quicker and easier to write than martial arts.

    is it supposed to be funny?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not unless you prefer chop suey to kung phooey.

    Best I'll go on as I intend. Aikido. Worth a chance. To think, though... living in Kalymnos made me feel safe. Never any fighting there; no drunkeness, no nastiness and certainly no racism. In Pothia I'd feel safe walking at night down any street. But alas, not in England. :(
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    omg. don't get you knickers twisted, it's just a phrase.

    Thinking about it, it may not be the best phrase to use, but then 'Jap' isn't considered by everybody (including the Japense) to be an ethnic slur.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Don't hestitate. Hit them first, fast and hard and don't stop until you know they're not going to get back up and fight you. There no rules to fighting either. Anyhting goes.

    too right, fella ended up stuck in some lock the other week and took half the other guys ear off .. lovely!

    boxin defo best bet
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    If you managed to get them to hold still why you did it yes. I really would have though precison high kicks in a sreet fight are your best bet. Far easier, faster and more effective just to plant your head on their face.

    Aye, can you imagine being pissed, wearing jeans and trying to high kick some cunt on the temple? You'd be the one on the ground not him. :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For drunken fights, boxing would be best. Last thing you want to do is end up on the ground, which is exactly what would happen if you're doing aikido. You'd also either end up breaking their arm or strangling them, which won't go down well on the police report. But in terms of effectiveness, I reckon the less fancy martial arts like aikido are generally the best. Depends on what you're planning on protecting yourself from, tbh. I reckon it's quite easy to avoid fights on nights out personally. But if you run into someone with a knife asking for your wallet, then boxing isn't going to stop you getting stabbed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    was it you that said something about using an elbow to clear space between you and an attacker when they tried to nick your car?

    It could have been someone else... I don't know.

    So what's the psychology behind winning a fight then? Make yourself look big, a la bear psychology, or pretend to be dead?



    Wasn't me, although your elbows and knees are your best weapons. A knee to an attacker's groin, and they aint getting up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    omg. don't get you knickers twisted, it's just a phrase.

    Thinking about it, it may not be the best phrase to use, but then 'Jap' isn't considered by everybody (including the Japense) to be an ethnic slur.

    I think you'll find it is considered offensive by japanese people, same way as calling a chinese person a chink is offensive as well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you'll find it is considered offensive by japanese people, same way as calling a chinese person a chink is offensive as well.

    Does that mean that calling somebody a 'Brit' is offensive too?

    They are both just a portion of the full word, whether it be British, or Japanese.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Does that mean that calling somebody a 'Brit' is offensive too?

    They are both just a portion of the full word, whether it be British, or Japanese.

    Same way as paki could be used as an abreviation for someone is pakistani, but i'm pretty sure a lot of people would see that as being offensive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Does that mean that calling somebody a 'Brit' is offensive too?

    They are both just a portion of the full word, whether it be British, or Japanese.

    Brit, hasnt been used as a derogatory term though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Same way as paki could be used as an abreviation for someone is pakistani, but i'm pretty sure a lot of people would see that as being offensive.



    A-ha, never thought of that. Fair point.

    I've just never thought of Jap being used in a negative way, to be honest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Brit, hasnt been used as a derogatory term though.

    Never heard Jap being used in that manner either though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    I don't give a crap what that says, I personally have never heard it used in that manner.

    I accept it can be, I just wasn't aware, and I don't use the term myself. I've never heard my friends use it either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no, im sure, i was just pointing out that i wasnt "just getting my knickers in a twist"
    Its pretty widely accepted that its generally used as a derogatory thing and offensive.
    Im not personally affected by it, but i was quite surprised to hear that term used without a thought
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no, im sure, i was just pointing out that i wasnt "just getting my knickers in a twist"
    Its pretty widely accepted that its generally used as a derogatory thing and offensive.
    Im not personally affected by it, but i was quite surprised to hear that term used without a thought

    With you now.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    I think you'll find it is considered offensive by japanese people, same way as calling a chinese person a chink is offensive as well.

    I think you'll find it isn't as straight forward as that. Well not for the Japanese that live in Japan anyway - a study in 2004 found they're mostly apethetic to the word apparently.

    Two things make a word offensive - if it's used to cause offense or if it's use causes offence. Search the forums for 'japs' and you'll see how common it is in the politics forum. Never once being used in a derogatory way, merely as short hand, and not until now somebody makign an issue of it.

    I do understand from this thread that it may be offensive to some though, so I'll try to remember not to use it.

    I'll also make not to point out everytime 'japs eye' is used in the health or sex forums that is actually rather offensive.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,194 Skive's The Limit
    t i was quite surprised to hear that term used without a thought

    And I suprised to hear how offensive some people think it is.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
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