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I don't look under 18. There's not a single idiot who could mistake me for being under 18. My current passport (which expired on Wednesday) says that I'm comfortably legal age. The only thing stopping me from getting served is the expiry date of the passport itself and that is mind-numbingly draconian.
God knows what kind of muppet was serving my brother when he got refused alcohol at the grand old age of 29. And that's saying something 'cause he looks the wrong side of 39.
My initial "shameful ID policing" comment was geared towards the clubs of London that blatantly discriminate based on gender. I've seen it far too many times. You're a good looking girl? Come in, don't worry about the ID, we won't even check! These places are primarily concerned about filling their dance floors with eligible ladies and they'll turn a blind eye to ID checking when it suits them.
I don't doubt for a second that you'd face harsh penalties for ignoring the legislation. My point is that the legislation is dumb and punishes the wrong people.
If I show you a passport stating my age and the expiry date is a couple of days out, what reasonable doubt do you have that I might be under the legal age? None, unless you're a complete tool of the government.
Yes, you have a bunch of bureaucratic nonsense guidelines to follow. Which admittedly isn't your fault, but it's still a shambolic state of affairs.
Anybody with any common sense can decipher that the Vodka is rightfully mine.
It doesnt if you have ID.
These guys that get turned away from clubs because they get ID'd, your complaining that girls dont get ID's as much? SO WHAT? If people have ID that is valid and in date, then they are fine.
I know a few days out of date passport doesnt seem right, but where do you draw the line, when its three weeks out of date, 3 months, 3 years? The same with many other things in life, you have to draw a definitive line somewhere.
If you are going to say that these "guidelines" are amittedly not bar staffs fault, then dont go off on one at them. End of the day most of its not actually guidelines but hard law.
And no personal offence aimed at you, but i personally think that people who go off on one about getting ID'd and make the staff feel shit, shouldnt be allowed out drinking. People work unsociable hours for often little pay, so people can go out to bars and pubs and be social. If you get pissed off about getting ID'd, just take it like a man (or woman) and get on with your life.
Exactly. It doesn't seem right because it isn't right. It's a complete joke.
Whether this is aimed at bar staff, or the government in general, I don't care in particular. It's the reality of the situation which screams mindless bureaucracy.
The way I see it:
1. If somebody asks my age, they must have some reasonable doubt that I'm underage. Fair enough.
2. If I show them my passport which clearly states that I'm not, that should satisfy their reasonable doubt. They know that I'm old enough and that they're not selling to a minor.
Yes, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. But to draw that line at 3 days when I've drank there the week before is, to me, complete BS and a situation where I think the bar staff (assuming its the same people) do take the piss with their "reasonable doubt".
Why can't we go back to policing ID with a little bit of common sense in those kinds of scenarios? It's completely different from somebody turning up with no form of ID, looking underage, and not being served.
Everything seems to be swinging back to "but that's the way it is so deal with it". Why? If I don't like something, I have as much of a right as any to complain about it.
You'll notice my initial post was asking for advice regarding where I can obtain some legal ID quickly. I mentioned in passing that I wasn't at all happy with the situation, but at no point did I mention going off on these rants that you talk of where I went out of my way to make bar staff feel like shit.
So to paint me as getting pissed off that I've been ID'd is more than a little harsh. I don't spaz out if somebody asks for my ID. I'm pissed off because something so trivial as having a 3 day expired passport has taken precedence over common sense. And if you'd spent your weekend at home because of that detail, you'd probably be in a bad mood too.
Papers, please.
Yes, there has to be a line drawn somewhere. But to draw that line at 3 days when I've drank there the week before is, to me, complete BS and a situation where I think the bar staff (assuming its the same people) do take the piss with their "reasonable doubt".
You'll notice my initial post was asking for advice regarding where I can obtain some legal ID quickly. I mentioned in passing that I wasn't at all happy with the situation, but at no point did I mention going off on these rants that you talk of where I went out of my way to make bar staff feel like shit.
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Well you mentioned the shamful ID policing in London bars.
As for bar staffs reasonable doubt, of course they are going to take the piss with someone they can sense vibes like this off.
Vibes like this?
Dude, get the point. I don't hiss and growl the second somebody asks me for my ID. If they're taking the piss - which often actually is the case with some of these bouncers in London - you're just proving my point.
I, personally, think the ID policing could be dealt with a lot better and a lot fairer. I also think a lot of bar staff are full of shit and enforce laws where it suits them. That's my opinion, and was never the point of the original post, so get over it.
Back to the topic at hand, I've applied for a UreLife card which I'm going to use until I get my new passport returned to me. If that gets refused, fuck it, I'll take my custom elsewhere.
Ex bar management not wanting to get a few thousand pound fine.
not all 18yr olds drive/have a valid passport
and those that do, tend not to want to run the risk of losing such items as they are costly to replace if one should lose it after a few beverages of the alcohol variety hehe
This and other comments made me chuckle. The bar staff aren't doing it to piss you off or excise power over you. They're doing it because the minimum fine they can expect for serving an underage person is £80 from someone like me, and if they refuse that a £1000 in court.
If you're underage, stop trying it. If you're old enough then getting valid ID isn't rocket science.
I've been turned away, in this situation, for not having two forms of ID on me.
Worse yet, a Lloyds bar in Watford once threatened to retain my passport as they believed it to be fake. This was because it was battered and worn in to the point where the photo was starting to fade. I asked for it back and they refused saying that it was their duty to pass it on to the police.
I showed them my credit cart to prove that the names matched up, and after an appreciated and pretty intimidating group effort from the rest of my mates - they finally gave it back.
I'm not slating every man or woman that's ever worked behind a bar. But there's no doubt that a sizeable number of them have the potential to be fucking twats in their policing of the rules.
Single guys are usually on the prowl for sex and females dont want to be bothered by it, im the first guy to admit that guys can be dickheads, and usually are.
And you wonder why they are like that, you might not be the way you are in here, when you go on a night out, but some barstaff get it in their face all night.
I don't know what the nightlife is like in your part of town, but when I was a single guy, I went out to have fun.
Girls can be just as bad. And in all honesty, if a girl doesn't want to get approached by the other sex, she should stay away from clubs. Or at the very least, be prepared to deal with social situations where - stop press, holy shit! - a guy might like to see if there's a spark. It's one of the most popular social hang-outs for meeting the opposite sex. What do you expect? A frigging nunnery?
As long as everybody knows their boundaries, there's no problem. To lump every single guy with the odd pervert is a ridiculous generalization and quite rich from somebody who's accused me of generalizing all bar staff!
You're effectively saying that females don't get ID'd or turned away because they're not perverts like single guys and not out to cause trouble. What a crock of shit that is.
Besides, I wasn't even suggesting that the guys had to be with the girl in a couple. when I say that the club requires them to be with a girl, I mean quite literally with a girl.
If you've dealt with these kind of clubs, you'll be aware that they send you away to find a girl who might be heading to another club in town - bring her in with you instead. If there's not a high enough girls:guys ratio, they'll stop letting in guys unless they manage to drag in some random girl off the street to even out the numbers.
It's like catching fish, using the poor guy as a bait and it's fucking disgraceful.
The complete lack of logic in what you're saying amuses me. They let in couples, but not singletons because the singletons are troublemakers. What do you think clubs and pubs exist for?
I do agree with you that common sense often goes completely out of the window when it comes to the ID thing and I think there is a lot of confusion around what the laws actually are. It is getting to the point where some shop assistants would refuse alcohol sale to a parent with a teenage child in tow just in case the parent is going to supply it to their child, even if they've given no indication that they are planning on doing so. Next they will be asking the person in the queue behind you and the random guy down the bin bag aisle for ID as well, just in case the two of you are together.
You do have to be careful and I've worked in an off license so I know it can be tricky, but when 30 year olds who look their age are getting asked for ID for fags (back when it was 16) or lottery tickets, then it is just getting ridiculous.
Personally I always carry ID but I have seen people who looked about 25-30 getting turned away from clubs, and I can understand their frustration if you've been going out for years without having to have ID, are clearly over 18, and now all of a sudden a lot of people seem to be going over the top in checking it.
You rant about girls, I go out with a group of girls who are all 21 and we regularly get asked for ID. Just smile and show it.
Fair enough, I'm 29 now, so don't really get asked when in the UK, but it's just a case of I carried suitable ID to make sure I didn't have any issues.
Basically people crying over spilled milk, here.
When I show them ID that says that I'm quite clearly older than 18, I expect that to suffice.
That's nice for you but I've had enough different experiences to have a different opinion.
I'm not ranting about girls, by the way. I'm ranting about the double standards.
It's all well and good saying you have an out of date passport, but once it's out of date it's no longer an official document.
It also depends what you mean by comfortably over.
I'm not going to get any younger in the time that it takes me to receive my next passport. And if you're going to refuse to serve me after I was served the week before when my ID was valid, maybe I'll file a complaint that you've got a history of selling to minors. That's how much fucking sense it makes.
Maybe I haven't had my head in the news, but I've never heard of a complaint being filed that alcohol was served to an adult.
It's not a hard concept. And in answer to why you need the document, it's because age is notoriously difficult to guess. General concencus had me looking approx 19 from the age of 14 - 20.
Point is, I could bring my birth certificate, my National Insurance card, an expired passport, my medical forms, my provisional license, my property history, my bank statements and the birthday badge from my 18th birthday party and I'd still be faced with this problem.
Anybody who thinks that isn't sufficient proof of age is a fucking dumbarse.
The problem isn't that I can't prove it, it's that they won't accept it for completely ridiculous reasons.
Seeing as you think the staff are utterly ridiculous you could stop going there!
Read the first three posts of this thread.
Realize what the original topic was about.
You'll soon see that actually, I wasn't making a point of attacking bar staff, I was looking for some input for quick ID solutions.
People called me out on my use of the term "shameful ID policing", so I defended my opinion - some people, apparently, can't accept opinions that differ from the black and white grain of the law.
This thread is full of such complete and utter bullshit arguments.
I don't go out to make friends with the staff. I go out to socialize with my mates and have a good time.