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9% drop in crime

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
But will anyone believe it?
Police-recorded crime in England and Wales fell 9% in the 12 months to March, latest figures suggest.
The first reliable figures for knife crime showed there were 22,000 offences last year.
The statistics also show that while the risk of being a victim is at its lowest ever level, people still think that the rate is going up.
The politics of fear in action by any chance?

They had a professor of criminology on the BBC earlier, and he said that tha vast majority of people felt that crime was going up in general, but when you ask them about their own area, almost all of them say it's going down.
They also say the figures mirror trends in falling crime seen throughout the developed world.
So much for our constantly declining moral standards that certain commentators are always banging on about.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's always is the same and always will be. Fear of crime is always higher than its likelihood of it happening to you. All opposition politicians will say it's getting worse and they have the answer. All media outlets will focuss on the one schoolboy stabbed to death, rather than the hundreds of thousands who aren't...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i definitely feel a lot safer since i stopped watching the news and reading the papers, lived in london 5 years now including some 'rough' areas and never had much trouble so don't believe the hype....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem with statistics like this is that they fail to take into account unreported crime. Alot of gang-related crime goes unreported due to 'victims' wanting as little police attention as possible.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i definitely feel a lot safer since i stopped watching the news and reading the papers,

    I think you've just solve the problem of crime, immigration, global warming, deaths in Iraq.......what else do papers complain about?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    actually if anyone remembers the anouncement made previously to this one it was noted that almost as many stabings had occured in london in these six months as in the whole of last year sorry. and yes my area IS getting worse !

    Wellingborough has 30 % more bulgaries than Kettering and kettering is twice the size of Wellingborough ! in the instances that I have been involved in the police being called (damage to cars at local village hall and my dads car being brocken into) the police were all mouth and NO action they were very over optimistic and it was clearly to put our minds at ease but was obviously not going to take the form of much action there was infact little that could be done for my dads card and the extra policing of the village was a fucking miky take, while officers sat cosily in their cars 100 metres around the corner kids were prating about in the road on a zebra crosing with bikes and a football naturaly if I had hit one I would be to blame but then this is a truly democratic country.

    apart from a general increase in seroious crime there is a growing attitude of uncaring and unrest in young people. When I go to a pub with my local Rotaract club we ALWAYS advoid central pubs and go out in the country ones. a friend of ours was knocked unconcious in a row over a foot ball match and the police were called. The police (bless the darlings) refused to enter the pub and deal with it because they may have got injured while an unconcios man was being trampled all over it was firends that finally took the risks and dragged him out by his feet as fast as possible, the incident was not at all followed up by the police who could have arrested those responsable on the spot.

    another member of the club has had here car damaged by neibouring youngsters naturally nothing can be proven and guess what ? yea you guessed the police are being very very active in sending out letters asking for whitnesses bla bla bla yet they were willing to stand by and let a man be trampled to death if it hadn't been for his friends.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and while the police will not intervene for "their own safety" the gov urges the people to take action against crime:

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20080719/tuk-public-urged-to-take-stand-on-crime-6323e80.html

    Thanks jacky tell ya what lets do away with the police completely eh ? save some tax payer money just leave the terrorist dept running !
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Look at it the other way. Every time we do intervene, some armchair wanker complains that we were heavy handed and deserve to lose our jobs.

    You give your town as an example saying it has had 30% more burglaries. What does that mean exactly? The town I work in had a 400% drop in robbery. We went from having 4 robberies to 0 in the same time period. The nearby village had a 300% increase in burglaries, because it had 6 instead of 3.
    Percentage statistics on their own are amongst the most misleading, especially when dealing with crime. When looking at the crime stats for both areas, Kettering has 4 burglaries for every thousand people, Wellingborough has 6. Hardly a crime wave when you consider Northampton has just under 10 and the city I work in has 20.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Look at it the other way. Every time we do intervene, some armchair wanker complains that we were heavy handed and deserve to lose our jobs.

    You give your town as an example saying it has had 30% more burglaries. What does that mean exactly? The town I work in had a 400% drop in robbery. We went from having 4 robberies to 0 in the same time period. The nearby village had a 300% increase in burglaries, because it had 6 instead of 3.
    Percentage statistics on their own are amongst the most misleading, especially when dealing with crime. When looking at the crime stats for both areas, Kettering has 4 burglaries for every thousand people, Wellingborough has 6. Hardly a crime wave when you consider Northampton has just under 10 and the city I work in has 20.

    on a country wide level % ones are generally fine though many areas are prone to under reporting

    some crimes are iffy to use %s for like murder because there is only under a 1000 per year i heard so any small change is a hefty %, ie 0.1%
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was mildly amused by the story in the free paper on the bus the other day. About an old man who refused to believe crime was falling, he locked his wife in the house when he went out on his own, kept agiant baseball bat near the door just incase, when on about all these gangs of youths and hteir crimewaves.

    Yet he admitted he had never been a victim of crime, and that the bit he lived in was the "better" end of town, and he was just going by the fact he has seen more and more reports of crime on the news.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    on a country wide level % ones are generally fine though many areas are prone to under reporting

    some crimes are iffy to use %s for like murder because there is only under a 1000 per year i heard so any small change is a hefty %, ie 0.1%

    Nationally you're right. You're dealing with such huge numbers a percentage change can represent a huge difference in terms on numbers, My force alone reported 35,000 fewer victims last year, a drop of 9% which is pretty much standard nationwide.
    When you shrink the scale, down to small towns and villages, the percentages are meaningless, a 50% increase can actually mean 1 extra crime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well personally i have no confidence in the police at all anymore and I wouldn't be surprised if many crimes go unoticed and of course I forgot to mention Rushden

    When my dad was broken into as he slept (the theif ran off when he realized there was someone in the house) the police came 2 days later and basically told my dad that either the window catch had unscrewed its self all on its own or that my dad was that stupid that he had undone it himself and plain forgot and i know damn well my dad woul;d never do a thing like that being a super cautious person. The police station was actually shut for a period because it was getting vandalized !
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    Nationally you're right. You're dealing with such huge numbers a percentage change can represent a huge difference in terms on numbers, My force alone reported 35,000 fewer victims last year, a drop of 9% which is pretty much standard nationwide.
    When you shrink the scale, down to small towns and villages, the percentages are meaningless, a 50% increase can actually mean 1 extra crime.

    exactly!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    I was mildly amused by the story in the free paper on the bus the other day. About an old man who refused to believe crime was falling, he locked his wife in the house when he went out on his own, kept agiant baseball bat near the door just incase, when on about all these gangs of youths and hteir crimewaves.

    Yet he admitted he had never been a victim of crime, and that the bit he lived in was the "better" end of town, and he was just going by the fact he has seen more and more reports of crime on the news.

    well he was a bit over the top then again a friend of mine lived on the edge of the worst part of plymouth for a year but had no problems mind you she hardly went looking for trouble
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Whowhere wrote: »
    The nearby village had a 300% increase in burglaries, because it had 6 instead of 3.
    Sorry to be a pedant, but you mean 200%. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Like whowhere says, percentages are not very meaningful. If you've just been mugged, you're not going to care that "crime is down x per cent", you care that you've just been a victim of crime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the same friend that had her car damaged got home late the other night to find a strange man on her door step (was very late as the car broke down something like 3 AM) she tried speaking to him but he just stood there and looked through her ! so she went back to her friends car and called the police, they rang back after a few minutes to ask if it was urgent erm na no really she only needed to get back into her house and there was a strange bloke on the door step wtf did the police think it was ? well in the end they drove round the block a couple of times until he went away. is it me or every single time I hear of or am involved with police being called they are USELESS a drop in crime yea I bet there is they are that on the ball that i doubt they know really whats going on at all. I say pull out of Iraq even if partly and use the money for a real police force that truly have some force and arn't a bunch of Bull shitters why the hell are we trying to keep other countries safe when our own is undermanned and/or incompetent
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry to be a pedant, but you mean 200%. :p



    I didn't join because I'm good at maths :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katchika wrote: »
    Like whowhere says, percentages are not very meaningful. If you've just been mugged, you're not going to care that "crime is down x per cent", you care that you've just been a victim of crime.

    Of course, but the fact is that most of us haven't just been mugged, nor are we likely to be. And yet most of us still seem to have this opinion that society is going to shit and that every walk home will either result in us being mugged, beaten up, raped or killed.
    However, 65% of people said they thought rates had gone up nationally. But the same proportion again thought crime had fallen locally.

    I think that quote says it all. The majority of people get their impressions of this from something other than personal experience, so I think it says a lot about those other sources that people actually think crime is rising. Interestingly too, the professor of criminology I saw on the news said that those who were most concerned by crime tended to be those who lived in the areas least likely to actually be affected by it. Maybe they're the ones least able to see with their own eyes that the media and politicians are generally talking out of their arse and exaggerating everything to their own benefit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a more useful figure is per head not percentage, anyway its easy to see figures fall crime means reported crime and who bothers to even report it noways
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a more useful figure is per head not percentage, anyway its easy to see figures fall crime means reported crime and who bothers to even report it noways

    A fall in crime of that magnitude? it would be very unusual for that many people to simply stop ringing up, especially as most would be calling for a crime number to claim on insurance.

    We'll have to wait for the British crime survey to be sure.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    1 person out of ten ? not that many really its probably the only crimes reported are the ones that need official recognition most others probably don't bother I know that I would report a crime but only because it would (hopefully) keep the figures straight I'd not at all expect much practically useful action to be taken nowadays all they do is talk talk and talk if it means going in and getting someone theres a reason they can't do it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Trust me, there is no lack in the number of people calling us, if anything we've seen an increase in actual calls for assistance, and because we've improved our response times we're actually able to prevent some things from happening.

    At least in our force, over time and with increased numbers of calls we are able to increase resources in an area, and after a couple of years we're beginning to see the effect.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well I hope your right because to play the govs game in percentage the negative experiences i have had or heard of is equal to 100 % and 50 % of the time they just uttered reasuring dribble I can understand that they cannot catch the would be theif that prised my dads car door open whilst wearing gloves but why make false hope ? thats called taking the piss
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lol simons-photography you sound live youve grown up living under a rock mate


    all you have to do is read any tabloid these days to see the scaremongering is ridiculous ffs!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a more useful figure is per head not percentage, anyway its easy to see figures fall crime means reported crime and who bothers to even report it noways
    For the types it covers, the BCS can provide a better reflection of the true extent of crime because it includes ones that are not reported to the police and crimes which are not recorded by them.

    The BCS showed the risk of being a victim of crime has fallen from 24 to 22%, the lowest level recorded since the survey began in 1981.

    However, 65% of people said they thought rates had gone up nationally. But the same proportion again thought crime had fallen locally.

    “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” Overrall crime may be going down but the number of teenagers killed in London has been going up since 2006. You can't pin that one on scaremongering by the villainous media and opportunist politicians.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Runnymede wrote: »
    “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

    There are also idiotic maxims and the fucking idiots that use them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    There are also idiotic maxims and the fucking idiots that use them.

    Says the guy who can't see the paradox in the phrase "idiotic maxims". :eek2:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Runnymede wrote: »
    “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” Overrall crime may be going down but the number of teenagers killed in London has been going up since 2006. You can't pin that one on scaremongering by the villainous media and opportunist politicians.

    exactly plus the general increase in antisocial behaviour but then the way of dealing with it is examplary. no you don't put bobbies on the beat who can deal with misbehaving youths and confiscate alcohol you tell the shops if you sell alcohol to under 18s we will fine you in other words they shift the responsability. what about all the over 18s that get drunk and cause trouble ? how is it the gov always tries to solve issues by making restraining laws for all instead of sending out the people WE PAY to keep law and order to deal with those that can't be responsable and do something about it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    exactly plus the general increase in antisocial behaviour but then the way of dealing with it is examplary. no you don't put bobbies on the beat who can deal with misbehaving youths and confiscate alcohol you tell the shops if you sell alcohol to under 18s we will fine you in other words they shift the responsability. what about all the over 18s that get drunk and cause trouble ? how is it the gov always tries to solve issues by making restraining laws for all instead of sending out the people WE PAY to keep law and order to deal with those that can't be responsable and do something about it.


    Again, you're pointing out things from your own quite limited point of view. Lots of areas put extra staff on duty at the weekends. My station goes from having 3 response officers, 2 beat managers and 4 PCSO's in the week, to 4/5 response officers, 4 beat managers, 6-10 PCSO's and at least 4 special constables at the weekend. Standing orders are to do your paperwork the day after and not to come back to the station except for your dinner. We'll spend all night stopping/searching people, confiscating alcohol, making arrests and taking underage kids home for their parents to deal with and people have told us we've made a big difference. Combine that with the extra work us schools officers are doing in school to prevent kids getting into trouble in the first place and you're looking at vast improvements in minor antisocial behaviour.

    Yes we have begun imposing heavy fines on shops who CONTINUALLY supply alcohol to underage kids, but only because until we did they were making it extremely easy for underage kids to get their hands on beer, until we started fining people it was blatantly obvious what was going on. You'd see adults going in and coming out with a bag of beer and handing it to a bunch of kids.

    Dealing with over 18's is a little harder, but we've set up one town as a "designated area" making it an offence to consume alcohol in public (discretionary, we don't target picnics and people behaving themselves) and thanks to the legislation contained in the Violent Crime Reduction Act.2006 we're able to order people who are drunk to leave an area. If they return within 48 hours they can be arrested. Perfect if you are having problems with people gathering outside your house drinking and causing problems.

    Just because it seems that the force that you live in doesn't seem to do anything, it doesn't mean it isn't, and it definitely doesn't mean other forces aren't making full use of their staff and the legislation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    You give your town as an example saying it has had 30% more burglaries. What does that mean exactly? The town I work in had a 400% drop in robbery. We went from having 4 robberies to 0 in the same time period. The nearby village had a 300% increase in burglaries, because it had 6 instead of 3..

    It's impossible to have a 400% drop unless you can have a negative amount of crime.

    The biggest drop you can have is 100%, going down from whatever it was to 0.

    You can however have an increase of 400% if it goes up 5 times. In your example though it went up 100%.
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