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Fathers at the Birth - Debate

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
So, there's a whole pile of discussion going on in an advice thread, maybe this will hope those of us to want to solely be friendly to the concerned mother and those who want to debate fathers rights both do so without mixing up the points and all getting frustrated.

Father initially shows no interest in the pregnancy, then later wants to be there, having spent a fair chunk of the intervening time being verbally agressive to the mother.

Thoughts?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    he forgoes any rights.

    (surprised?)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It should be up to the mother. No-one should be at the birth than people the mother has requested

    However, telling the father when the baby has been born is a different issue - I believe that's what was causing the controversy in the other thread?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just to add that when the time comes I have no intention of letting my man in the room with me while I'm giving birth. I don't know why but I just wouldn't want him there. I guess I may change my mind at the time. He was surprised and a bit upset but thats just the way I feel
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It should be up to the mum. You don't expect to have a right to stand in on someone's life-saving operation just because you donated the kidney. :p I don't see why birth and sperm should be any different.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its up to the woman to decide.

    As to what access the father gets after the birth (if parents arent an item) - that hopefully could be decided based on what is best for the kid - but is more likely to be a nasty legal battle.

    Personally I'd like to see couples counselling (if there are kids) on the NHS.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It should be up to the mum. You don\'t expect to have a right to stand in on someone\'s life-saving operation just because you donated the kidney. :p I don\'t see why birth and sperm should be any different.

    True enough, but you would not ask the kidney donor to maintain the kidney until it was 18 years old, would you ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    True enough, but you would not ask the kidney donor to maintain the kidney until it was 18 years old, would you ?

    What's that got to do with anything? It's a medical procedure, and as such should be as private as the woman wants it to be. I can't think of one good argument for the woman not having a choice in this matter.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What\'s that got to do with anything? It\'s a medical procedure, and as such should be as private as the woman wants it to be. I can\'t think of one good argument for the woman not having a choice in this matter.

    Not a lot, but you brought it up !

    I would question your view that it was a medical procedure though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would question your view that it was a medical procedure though.

    Well okay, it's like taking a shit then. And nobody should be allowed to watch someone do that without your consent either. ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think we are in agreement there.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its a hugely hugely personal decision. Nobody is or should be under any obligation to have anyone that they dont want there.
    If the father is likely to be supportive,loving and helpful then it can be wonderful to have the one you love holding your hand and mopping your brow as the baby you created arrive into the world.

    If the father is likely to be squeamish, unhelpful or the mother just wants to do it alone, then its best she does.
    You cant give birth efficiently with someone you dont want in the room and theres plenty of reasons why having the father there might not be a good idea
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tell him to fuck off basically, would be my advice
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fathers having to attend the birth? I've never heard of anything so daft. What use is he going to be in there? I doubt that holding the hand of the woman he impregnated is somehow going to be much help to her. And would the doctors and nurses at the birth appreciate his presence? He'd be far better off going to play golf for a few hours or something.

    As for the scenario described by the OP, it depends on how genuine this Damascean conversion apparently is. If his reasons for his change of mind are genuine and thoughtful, perhaps it's fair enough that he attend the pregnancy, and later be involved in the child's life. On the other hand, if his reasons turn out to be bluster, he can go to hell.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Fathers having to attend the birth? I've never heard of anything so daft. What use is he going to be in there? I doubt that holding the hand of the woman he impregnated is somehow going to be much help to her. And would the doctors and nurses at the birth appreciate his presence? He'd be far better off going to play golf for a few hours or something.

    I would want my partner to be at the birth of my kids, because I have a very low pain threshold and I would want someone there to support me through the inevitable trauma. Plus I would want him to see our baby when it first comes into the world.

    You have a very strange view of fatherhood, stargalaxy, I have to say.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fathers having to attend the birth? I've never heard of anything so daft. What use is he going to be in there? I doubt that holding the hand of the woman he impregnated is somehow going to be much help to her. And would the doctors and nurses at the birth appreciate his presence? He'd be far better off going to play golf for a few hours or something.

    A lot of men are actually very good to have around during the time of birth. There's not much use to having a gang of medical students or student midwives staring at your chuff while you deliver either but it's still done, so I don't think the idea of having the father present is *that* radical, providing that the woman is happy to have him there, they can provide brilliant support and be an advocate for the woman when she's not in a position to talk.

    Some guys are fairly lousy, a midwife was telling me of a woman who was mopping her partner's brow between her contractions :rolleyes: but I think the idea of shoving the useless sperm donor out of the picture so he can go and play is fairly outdated.

    The best people to make the decision are the people involved, rather than what's in vogue.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    from my experience of giving birth with my ex there who spent the whole time looking horrified and then not coming near me (sexually) for 10 months afterwards because he was so freaked out, I really think that individual couples need to make the decision for themselves. Men are kind of pressurised to be at the birth when tbh, its fairly gory and not all men are up to it. I think all women would benefit from a good birth partner, but thats not always the father of the child. In a lot of cases a close female friend or their mother or sister would be much much more useful.
    my boyfriend now attended my last two births and was an amazing birth partner - perfect, but then hes not squeamish and hes very sensitive yet assertive and it was actually a really beautiful romantic thing because of that. I was empowered.

    Its got to be the womans decision. Its her fanny everyones gonna be looking at after all!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Franki wrote: »
    You have a very strange view of fatherhood, stargalaxy, I have to say.

    I've been thinking the exact same thing lately after reading some purely bizarre posts!

    I sure would want a partner who'd show interest in the pregnancy and upbringing of his kid.

    --
    As for the original subject, around birthing I think it's the mother's right to limit access or exclude the father if he causes her uneccesary stress or fear. It's a tough enough time of life for the mother as is!

    Then afterwards there will be time to figure out how much it's possible to involve the father.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Father initially shows no interest in the pregnancy, then later wants to be there, having spent a fair chunk of the intervening time being verbally agressive to the mother.

    Not very clearly phrased.
    (Note that all the following is IMHO, this should be obvious)

    Be there where? If you mean during birth, it's up to the mother. If you mean for the upbringing, if the two parents can't agree on something someone else (a qualified third party) should review the case and decide for them. Personally, if he's still agressive etc I'd say screw him, if he isn't perhaps he deserves a chance (the qualified third party reviewing the case should be able to tell).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not very clearly phrased.
    (Note that all the following is IMHO, this should be obvious)

    Be there where? If you mean during birth, it's up to the mother. If you mean for the upbringing, if the two parents can't agree on something someone else (a qualified third party) should review the case and decide for them. Personally, if he's still agressive etc I'd say screw him, if he isn't perhaps he deserves a chance (the qualified third party reviewing the case should be able to tell).

    I think decisions about who looks after a child should be made in the child's best interest, rather than based on the annoying "which parent owns more of the baby" argument.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think decisions about who looks after a child should be made in the child's best interest, rather than based on the annoying "which parent owns more of the baby" argument.

    You'd think, wouldn't you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regardless of how the father has behaved I still think it is upto the mother to decide if she actually wants him in the room. It's a pretty invasive and stressful time and if she wants to go through it in privacy than she should be able to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think decisions about who looks after a child should be made in the child's best interest, rather than based on the annoying "which parent owns more of the baby" argument.



    You would think so, but some people on these boards seem to think that the baby belongs to the mother.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    You would think so, but some people on these boards seem to think that the baby belongs to the mother.
    Who said that?
    As the woman is giving birth it's up to her who she wants in the delivery room. That's not saying the father isn't important.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    You would think so, but some people on these boards seem to think that the baby belongs to the mother.

    Legally, since the Children Act 1989, the child belongs to the State.
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    I think decisions about who looks after a child should be made in the child's best interest, rather than based on the annoying "which parent owns more of the baby" argument.
    I'm confused: Are you suggesting I said anything to the contrary? :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Legally, since the Children Act 1989, the child belongs to the State.

    :lol:

    so technically, anyone who works for the state can be in the delivery room?

    I wonder if the father is included in that?



    (sorry I'm in a stupid mood tonight!)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no, labour doesnt count, but it means anyone can have their child taken off them
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm confused: Are you suggesting I said anything to the contrary? :confused:

    No, I'm agreeing with what you've said but you'd have to make sure the third party is the right person. There seem to be so many people involved with things like this who strongly believe the child should spend most of the time with the mother and a few times a week with the father, without really thinking about the impact this would have on the child. In my experience the parent's right to be a parent is stronger than a child's right to a decent childhood.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the problem there, is a decent childhood is subjective. Its also pretty much an idea only realised with hindsight rather than needing a specific parenting formula
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the problem there, is a decent childhood is subjective. Its also pretty much an idea only realised with hindsight rather than needing a specific parenting formula

    That might be true from the point of view of a parent who just wants to do their best, but I thik most people would agree that a decent childhood is one that is free from abuse, neglect, emotional blackmail and confusion and other things that result from being forced to live/have contact with parents who don't care or aren't able to be a good parent. The traditional system of a child living with the mother and seeing the father at weekends doesn't work for everyone, people who are involved in making these decisions for a child need to be more flexible in their thinking.
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