Arrogance

Former Member

Shakespeare wrote: »

It kind of sounds like you want high fives for being a "young professional in London". I'm sure it works for you, a continuous revenge of the nerds on those dropouts you mention. But your criteria have become very strange; and they actually equate quite depressingly with the sort of things I'd bet the dull brigade at your school seemed to value when they were teens. The qualifier "in that order" - you regard "social skills" as the most important quality in a human being? Screw those who can't present themselves quite as smoothly as a salesman?

"Looks" - something largely uncontrollable, not in any way a quality. Everyone can judge "ambition" differently; who's to say that aspiring to run a farm or work in a bookshop is any more or less admirable or impressive than wanting a highly paid job in London? If you talk to people whose jobs might typically be regarded as 'unimpressive', you often find that they're not defined by those social roles. They have other stuff going on, and besides, isn't it refreshing, adults who don't want to conquer their remote corner of the world?

"Intellect" is even more tricky. Mensa members? People who play chess? Fellow computer science graduates? Is it based on test scores, numbers, language, humour, empathy, musical ability, philosophy, sports, crossword puzzles, compassion, etc.? There's so many hundreds of attributes that go into making people, and intellect is such a po-faced word. We don't go around with tags that display our supposed IQs or list our achievements on t-shirts: it's done by feel, and while you may get a distinct feeling that someone is ignorant or ill-informed, it's very rare, at least for me, that after talking to a great person you come away beaming about their "intellect". It's more likely to be the jokes they make, their subject matter, their take on the world. All that stuff is too cool and precious to be bundled into a stern box like intellect.

In short, your criteria are fatally flawed and I reject your arrogance on moral grounds.

As I said, personal preferences vary. Those are my own which not everyone will agree with, just like I wont agree with yours. Yes I lay a particularly high attachment to social skills, being a smooth speaker and presenter, as first impressions count and that coupled with looks are important for that. Obviously intellect is hard to measure but Im not talking IQ, when you meet people and talk to them its easy to pick up who is "intelligent" and who is "thick". Such descriptions wouldnt exist if they were so hard to quantify.

Former Member

I'm With Stupid wrote: »

You see arrogant people in football sometimes, and they're never successful until they get rid of it, because like most things, it's a team game. Arrogant players fall out with managers, teammates and clubs, think they know best, don't improve very quickly because they believe thier own hype. The ones who are successful are the ones who know that all they have is potential, and there are still a hell of a lot to learn off people who know a lot more about everything than them. The people who achieve aren't the people who focus on past achievements or compare themselves to other people. The more you know, the more there is to learn. So arrogance is never a good quality.

Well, actually Im thinking people like boxers (Mohammed Ali), rappers (Pharrell "Im the shit" Williams) who nonstop spout(ed) about how theyre the best, the worlds greatest... it was that sort of mindset that helped them be a success and hasnt really hindered their progress.

I'm With Stupid wrote: »

Also, just a side note, but I read a study once that the more incompetent a person is, the more likely they are to overestimate their own ability, whereas the most competent people are more likely to underestimate it. So think about that before you start spouting off about how much better than everyone else you are.

Interesting. I can use simple facts and figures to show where I stand though. Eg academics and intellect - a demanding degree from one of the worlds most prestigious universities. Social skills that have got me waltzing through a ton of demanding job interviews, elected to competitive positions at uni and sleeping with dozens of girls. A £28k grad job age 22 with exciting international prospects (currently writing this from an airport with a keyboard lacking apostrophes, hehe). Im not overestimating my ability, I know Im pretty damn good but far from the best. Hows that arrogant?

Former Member

tinkler wrote: »

- a demanding degree from one of the worlds most prestigious universities. Social skills that have got me waltzing through a ton of demanding job interviews

Just a quick one - why would you need to get through a 'ton' of demanding job interviews? Were you interviewing for (and being offered) many jobs, waiting to find the right one for you? Or were you being unsuccessful?

Former Member

I personally think you have a rather arrogant and stupid attitude.
So you`ve got a good job,can pull a few women and go out a lot.
Lets be honest,your not better than ANYONE.
Neither am I,nor anyone else on this board.
To think you are better than someone else is,in my opinion a very immature and stuck up attitude,used to boost up your own self importance and ego.

Former Member

tinkler wrote: »

Well, actually Im thinking people like boxers (Mohammed Ali), rappers (Pharrell "Im the shit" Williams) who nonstop spout(ed) about how theyre the best, the worlds greatest... it was that sort of mindset that helped them be a success and hasnt really hindered their progress.

Interesting. I can use simple facts and figures to show where I stand though. Eg academics and intellect - a demanding degree from one of the worlds most prestigious universities. Social skills that have got me waltzing through a ton of demanding job interviews, elected to competitive positions at uni and sleeping with dozens of girls. A £28k grad job age 22 with exciting international prospects (currently writing this from an airport with a keyboard lacking apostrophes, hehe). Im not overestimating my ability, I know Im pretty damn good but far from the best. Hows that arrogant?

Well, tinkler, no one here can tell if you're arrogant in real life or not. But from what people are reading here your opinions of yourself stand out as quite arrogant. And if you're that successful. Good for you. It's ok to be proud of yourself if you've achieved something meaningful. But why'o why do you have to make these threads bragging about yourself? Why not ascnd from these Persona Grata discussion to a more general quesion of what identifes an arrogant person, which is what I thought you wanted to investigate in the first place

Former Member

tinkler wrote: »

Well, actually Im thinking people like boxers (Mohammed Ali), rappers (Pharrell "Im the shit" Williams) who nonstop spout(ed) about how theyre the best, the worlds greatest... it was that sort of mindset that helped them be a success and hasnt really hindered their progress.

And possibly almost destroyed Ali's life. Boxers are famously incapable of knowing when to retire and being unable to accept that they're no longer the best, sometimes to the detriment of their health. Not that I think that Ali was arrogant personally. Ali used a fairly widely known tactic in sport psychology of attempting to intimidate and anger your opponent. Look at the difference in manner pre and post fight in any boxer. What he says before the fight doesn't say anything about him as a person. You don't get that far without going into a boxing club for the first time and accepting that everyone in there has something to teach you. That's not to say that some arrogant people aren't successful, but don't equate that to their arrogance being the reason for their success, otherwise you'd never have anyone who's humble and successful (and they're far more common). I don't know about Pharrell Williams (and judging by the number of other artists he collaborates with, he clearly doesn't believe himself to be better than anyone else, or he wouldn't be working with them), but in the music industry in general, musicians are always the first people to recommend other music they like. You're like the shy bloke who can't pull, who sees another bloke treating his girlfriend like shit, and thinks that the reason he can get girls is because he's a wanker. It's stupid reasoning.

tinkler wrote: »

Interesting. I can use simple facts and figures to show where I stand though. Eg academics and intellect - a demanding degree from one of the worlds most prestigious universities. Social skills that have got me waltzing through a ton of demanding job interviews, elected to competitive positions at uni and sleeping with dozens of girls. A £28k grad job age 22 with exciting international prospects (currently writing this from an airport with a keyboard lacking apostrophes, hehe). Im not overestimating my ability, I know Im pretty damn good but far from the best. Hows that arrogant?

Of course you think you're better than most people, because you're the one making up the facts to judge it with. Can you weave a basket? How successful was your latest feature film? How many discoveries have you made in the field of quantum physics? How many pairs of shoes do you own? How many children have you successfully raised? Can you catch your own lunch in the middle of the Amazon? How many people have you converted to your religion? How many posts do you have on thesite.org? Anyone can convince themselves they're better than other people if they come up with their own way of measuring it. The point is that most people don't need to convince themselves they're better than other people. It's this that makes someone arrogant (and I'm clearly saying "someone" because this isn't a thread about you, and Jim will tell me off if I make it one). It's for other people to tell you you're the best. You can't come to that judgement yourself.

Skive

tinkler wrote: »

Interesting. I can use simple facts and figures to show where I stand though. Eg academics and intellect - a demanding degree from one of the worlds most prestigious universities. Social skills that have got me waltzing through a ton of demanding job interviews, elected to competitive positions at uni and sleeping with dozens of girls. A £28k grad job age 22 with exciting international prospects (currently writing this from an airport with a keyboard lacking apostrophes, hehe). Im not overestimating my ability, I know Im pretty damn good but far from the best. Hows that arrogant?

This isn't a discussion on arrogance, it's you once again presenting lots of waffle about how good you are.
For somebody so smooth that puts so much value on communication and first impressions you've come across very badly.

You come across as somebody trying depseratley to impress, which makes you look kind of insecure. Nobody else here find the need to bang on about how successful they are, most people find they can develop personal relationships without the big I AM.

Former Member

tinkler wrote: »

Stargalaxy - quality post. Like you, I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about me on this site as its completely irrelevant. You don't know who I am nor will you. However, I find what people think of me in the "real world" extremely important. If I ever become successful I wouldn't want people telling the papers I'm a cocky arrogant twat.

I would. Look at Simon Cowell, for instance. He has made his millions and massively increased his profile by reducing to tears all those deluded people who think they can sing. He's been described as arrogant and worse more than once, yet it's never done him any harm. If everyone kept saying he was a really nice man, he wouldn't have got where he is today.

I'm With Stupid wrote: »

Also, just a side note, but I read a study once that the more incompetent a person is, the more likely they are to overestimate their own ability, whereas the most competent people are more likely to underestimate it.

David Brent comes to mind. Admittedly, he's only a character in a TV show, but he epitomises arrogance for me. Even when he's been fired, he still goes into the office to tell the new boss how to do his job!

Former Member

As Jonny8888 menions above, arrogance is something that is perceived by others, not something that is realised by the arrogant person.

**helen**

tinkler wrote: »

Interesting. I can use simple facts and figures to show where I stand though. Eg academics and intellect - a demanding degree from one of the worlds most prestigious universities. Social skills that have got me waltzing through a ton of demanding job interviews, elected to competitive positions at uni and sleeping with dozens of girls. A £28k grad job age 22 with exciting international prospects (currently writing this from an airport with a keyboard lacking apostrophes, hehe). Im not overestimating my ability, I know Im pretty damn good but far from the best. Hows that arrogant?

I left this thread open to let people have their say and to hear some different views on arrogance, confidence etc, but it seems you're just keen for people to know how successful you are (in your view) and that doesn't really make for interesting discussion. I really can't see that you're looking for support or advice here, so I'm going to close this thread.