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socialist government wants to deny

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru


    And many 'contacted' tribes have had their lives ruined by loggers, miners and ranchers - and their needs ignored by governments.

    I see where you're coming from but I think the difficulty of managing 'controlled contact' mean that 'modern civilisation' should proceed with extreme caution...

    I do find it fascinating that in the 21st century there are countries which have experienced colonisation, globalisation and modernisation yet are home to uncontacted tribes who could just as well be living a thousand years ago. And the reason to protect such peoples isn't to preserve their backwardness as some kind of living museum of pre-modernity - it's about protecting people who are easy victims; they don't have lawyers, they don't have political clout - so their land is stolen and their human rights are violated.

    abso-bloody-lutely spot on
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    one thing I'm pretty sure of they are probably more civilized and honest than us, they certainly didn't look happy to see us why not just let them be why can't we accept life for what it is why do we have to try and be gods and decide what "the best thing is" instead of letting life get on with itself.

    why are we assuming they can't cope with desease and die early deaths ? I bet they are damn more healthy than us ! with all the crap we eat we dare to suggest they "need" our medical advancement i bet they could match almost any of our DRUGS with natural remedies why are we so ignorant of just how shit we have made our own lives and illude ourselves we have quality of life. I bet none of those people are suffering from illness or metal problems and that most certainly their way of living does not cause them harm such as we do to ourselves. they are
    still around and that means they can certainly manage themselves the only time they will be threatened will be when we cut the forest down and we shouldn't be doing that for out own good !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they wouldnt all get a cold and die i think they should be subjected to the same treatment as anyone else. A government shouldn't leave a certain group of people alone and not others just because they spear monkeys for dinner and wear bad fake tan.

    I was half serious with the human rights comment, according to the UN's own bs they cant determine themselves if they dont know what state they live under or what a nation state is.

    I think lawyers should be parachuted in pronto. Or another item be added to the list of bullshit blabbed by governments and the UN.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in short its simpler to let them be the rain forrest should be left intact anyhow so whats the point ? leave the forrest alone leave the pople alone and if they do know of us they probably know that WE=Destruction else they would have been welcoming us !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why are we assuming they can't cope with desease and die early deaths ? I bet they are damn more healthy than us ! with all the crap we eat we dare to suggest they "need" our medical advancement i bet they could match almost any of our DRUGS with natural remedies why are we so ignorant of just how shit we have made our own lives and illude ourselves we have quality of life. I bet none of those people are suffering from illness or metal problems and that most certainly their way of living does not cause them harm such as we do to ourselves.

    Don't be ridiculous. That's a very romantic view of their life. It's guaranteed that the life expectancy is very low, infant mortality rate will be extremely high, deaths of women in childbirth will be reasonably high, dental diseases and problems that can kill you in a place like that are quite high. None of these things have natural remedies, and to suggest they could match centuries of scientific research and worldwide sharing of knowledge between around 5 billion people, with things they find in the forest is ridiculous. The best you could say is that on the flip size, they also haven't been sharing diseases and viruses with the other 5 billion people for the past few centuries either. I agree with you that this isn't a reason to impose change on them, but let's not suggest they have some kind of idyllic life where everything is zipadee-do-da and death doesn't exist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't be ridiculous. That's a very romantic view of their life. It's guaranteed that the life expectancy is very low, infant mortality rate will be extremely high, deaths of women in childbirth will be reasonably high, dental diseases and problems that can kill you in a place like that are quite high. None of these things have natural remedies, and to suggest they could match centuries of scientific research and worldwide sharing of knowledge between around 5 billion people, with things they find in the forest is ridiculous. The best you could say is that on the flip size, they also haven't been sharing diseases and viruses with the other 5 billion people for the past few centuries either. I agree with you that this isn't a reason to impose change on them, but let's not suggest they have some kind of idyllic life where everything is zipadee-do-da and death doesn't exist.

    I don't mean to romanticies all I'm saying is they have a way of life and wow they've made it so far, in case you forgot theres also something called natural selection they are healthy not so much because of remedies they have but simply because if they are unfit to survive they die and the strongest live on. our culture is based differently we cure out mortal problems and then pass them on to our children ! in such a small group there no doubt is a certain level lets say of "incest" not that that is the correct word hence the ones that survive are tough because the slightest problem comes out immediately and those carrying weak genes dye off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and if we contact them, its all gonna be about imposing laws on them that they didnt ask for. Im sure theyre not gonna be getting free healthcare are they. Theyll just be another unerprivelegd group of society who can know all about the wonderful health advances in the world, yet not have any access to it at all unless they do some shitty job to pay a fortune for it, that is nothing to d with their way of life for thousands of years. Theyll also be very likely to be coerced into giving up their land for logging purposes relocated!!
    If it aint broke dont fix it.
    If they contact us - fine. If they dont, leave them be
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    to move them would be a problem for them because they know their environment they would suddenly have to get to know a new environment and would need help in adapting and that would be the end of them because we are not very good at helping are we ?!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry wrong thread
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And do we really think South America would be better of under the Aztecs and their perchant for human sacrifice?
    Or the conquistadors who colonised parts of Latin America, brought diseases, tried to erase Indian culture, infantilised the Aztecs and opposed their religion on them?

    P.S. The Aztecs were central America, not South America.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    P.S. The Aztecs were central America, not South America.

    quite and in the north part of south america (Peru) it was the incas i beleive there were many more tribves than we often realize and don't even bother to wonder why they are so similar even though they hardly ever met !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    quite and in the north part of south america (Peru) it was the incas i beleive there were many more tribves than we often realize and don't even bother to wonder why they are so similar even though they hardly ever met !

    :yes:

    Yes... I would love to trek the Andes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote: »
    I can't see our government treating our nomads any better - Gipsies. People often despise them although this probably more about the crime that they are sometimes responsible for.

    quite from the little i have seen they are criminals full stop, I might be biased but its based simply on what I've seen and working for a company that scraps alluminium radiators we see plenty of them !
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote: »
    Yeah, bit silly to compare pikies with gipsies and gipsies with indians.

    i haven't read the rest of the thread yet and figured out how gisys got into this
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If it ain't broke why fix it?

    There are no communities naive enough to think that they are alone, there never have been. If they want us they'll let us know. Until they do, what's wrong with leaving them to it?

    I find it quite sad that some poster in this thread have tried to claim that we're more "enlightened" than "savage" tribes of people. We might have better drugs but we also leave people dying by the side of the road if they don't have enough money. It's all a bit Brave New World to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some 'uncontacted' tribes are in contact with other tribes which are in 'contact' with outside modern civilisation. And whilst this might not be true of this tribe - I personally suspect most 'uncontacted' tribes are not quite as ignorant of modern civilisation as we might think...

    I'd say thats quite true if they didn't know about us they would think the plane was of the gods or something and be bowing to it not shooting arrows I'm sure they know who we are
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    If it ain't broke why fix it?

    There are no communities naive enough to think that they are alone, there never have been. If they want us they'll let us know. Until they do, what's wrong with leaving them to it?
    I suspect some people resent not being able to sell them things.
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