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Stealing candy from a baby

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
edited January 2023 in General Chat
Poor guy, did anyone else see the F1 race? Just goes to show its the boss who really runs the race, not the drivers.

Ok, he is paid a nice sum, but in my mind, it was Rubens who won the race fair and square.
Post edited by JustV on

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I agree its harsh of Rubens, but he is the second driver and must expect this to happen <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    Ferrari are protecting their investment, its a buisness when all said and done and they must take the best course of action from a selfish point of view in a given circumstance.

    Its hardly a bad life for Rubens though, he's nothing to complain about when you look at his lifestyle <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, its a shame though, he had worked so hard to get there, and then the crowd went a bit mad at Schumacher, but I suppose they are just pawns <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im sorry i didnt know there was the same topic here. <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was a total disgrace. <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> Not only did Ferrari cheat the fans but they cheated Ruben too, who had beaten Michael fair and square.

    I'm also disgusted that Schumacher (my top man!) actually took the win. His actions afterwards on the podium were motivated by the fans reaction (titalkly justified) and not because he felt bad. Hell, he tried to justify it later. Bollocks, there can be no excuse for what happened.

    Ferrari should be ashamed of themselves, and if Formula One don't do anything to stop this repeating (or penalise Ferrari for this) then F1 is no longer a sport.

    Who wants to watch fixed races?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    <STRONG>
    Who wants to watch fixed races?</STRONG>

    Its not fixed though in all fairness, formula one is about team versus team, not driver versus driver.

    Either way its Ferrari one and two, how they choose to place their drivers within that is their business.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by eb:
    <STRONG>Its not fixed though in all fairness, formula one is about team versus team, not driver versus driver.</STRONG>

    and Ferrari would have won in either event so that becomes irrelevant.

    <STRONG>
    Either way its Ferrari one and two, how they choose to place their drivers within that is their business.</STRONG>

    Sorry eb but that's crap.

    All Ferrari have to do is get a one/two - the rest is down to the race. It is a different thing to ask either driver not to push things, and to ensure that the TEAM get the best possible placing, than it is to ask one driver to move over meters from the finish so that an INDIVIDUAL can claim the winners placing.

    All weekend Rubens outpaced Schey, right up until team orders told him to move over...

    As for the fans, I think the trackside reaction was inevitable. They had been cheated - esp. those who had money on Ruben to win...

    ~~~

    Personally, I think that Schuey in more implicated that he is appearing. I wouldn't be surprised to see it written into his contract...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But Ferrari are a buisness, it is more money for them if they produce the world champion driver, Schumacher has the better chance so they make sure he wins, its simple buisness sense.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry, I thought it was a sport. If it isn't then this should be in Anything Goes <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    Ferrari is in this to make money. I cannot argue with that, but that should not be at the expense of the sport as a whole. If the punters start to feel that races are fixed - and a decision to let one individual win over another <STRONG>is</STRONG> a fix - then they won't follow the sport.

    How much positive publicity have Ferarri got out of this?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    <STRONG>Sorry, I thought it was a sport. If it isn't then this should be in Anything Goes <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    Ferrari is in this to make money. I cannot argue with that, but that should not be at the expense of the sport as a whole. If the punters start to feel that races are fixed - and a decision to let one individual win over another [qb]is</STRONG> a fix - then they won't follow the sport.

    How much positive publicity have Ferarri got out of this?[/QB]

    Well there lies the problem, where do you draw the line ?

    Ferrari did what they did for the good of themselves, not the spectator, in much the same way Man U field a weak team for a premiership match in order to preserve players for a European fixture, it does in some respect con the paying public, but money rules now where sport is concerned.

    Ferrari have aims and targets to meet, i presume they are primarily to win both the constuctors and drivers championship, todays little manouver maximised their chances of both.

    As far as i've always been concerned that sort of tactical 'match fixing' is all part of formula one, why do they have two cars each ?????????????

    I suppose it depends if you consider the idea to be driver versus driver or team versus team <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> I consider it to be team versus team, the drivers are just pawns.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    <STRONG>
    They had been cheated - esp. those who had money on Ruben to win...
    </STRONG>

    Damn right. I'm soo pissed off because I had £5 on Schumacher not to win. Schumacher vs the rest <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">. Looks good all weekend until the last lap. Schumacher acknowledges he's been beaten over the weekend and Rubens knows he's had the better of Schuey!

    It probably is in Schuey's contract. He's number one driver and that means he's got the spare car, the new car first etc etc. If the plan needs it Rubens holds up the field on a one stop while Scheuy makes 5 seconds a lap. Ultimately Ferrari get the points either way round. Schuey wants to win the Championship and is easily the best driver - with the best car.

    It's team against team now - not driver against driver.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by eb:
    <STRONG>Ferrari did what they did for the good of themselves, not the spectator, in much the same way Man U field a weak team for a premiership match in order to preserve players for a European fixture, it does in some respect con the paying public, but money rules now where sport is concerned.</STRONG>

    Its isn't the same at all. Man United will still put out a strong team - but they don't designate a single goalscorer. What is important to them is that they win the match, Ferrari had already won the race they just decided WHO would win the race. That is, and will always be fixing a race.

    The nearest football analogy to that is if the Premier League deciding who will win the league based on the amount of money that would generate...and disregarding the fact that Arsenal had amassed the most points this year.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent:
    <STRONG>

    Its isn't the same at all. Man United will still put out a strong team - but they don't designate a single goalscorer. What is important to them is that they win the match, Ferrari had already won the race they just decided WHO would win the race. That is, and will always be fixing a race.

    The nearest football analogy to that is if the Premier League deciding who will win the league based on the amount of money that would generate...and disregarding the fact that Arsenal had amassed the most points this year.</STRONG>

    If Ferrari want Schumacher to win the championship I feel they have evey right to tactically place their drivers, they employ the drivers, the drivers do as they say, they provide the cars in which the drivers race.

    I think the trouble is people view formula one as driver versus driver, but that simply isn't the case, the sport is based around team versus team, the teams must optimise their returms from each scenario and thats all Ferrari were doing.

    If people bet on Rubens, then they must take into consideration that in a scenario like yesterday Schumacher will be allowed past, I said it to a mate over the phone about 3 laps from the end 'yeah, but he'll have to let Schumacher past' I couldn't believe so few people saw it coming, nor could I believe the reaction of the fans, surely they must of expected it <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    I also think the comparison with Man U is valid, Man U turn up at somewhere like Leicster, the fans pay hoping to see the likes of Beckham and instead end up with Chadwick, Man U's primary concern is winning, how they achieve it is their buisness, regardless of who the fans get to see in return for their money. Ferrari are most concerned with winning as effectively as possible which is what the did, Schumacher 1st Rubens 2nd is a better outcome for them, the means to the end are irrelevant in both cases, as long as the end is the desired outcome.

    [ 13-05-2002: Message edited by: eb-er-dee ]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im a big ferrari fan and especiall Schumacher but i was discraced by the decision about rubens taking second. You could se on the podium that micheal did not want it. Fair enough it makes good business sense but you could clearly see both men were upset/angry/annoyed. But it goes to show they are both team players, or else they wouldnt have gone along with it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Eddie_Hitler:
    <STRONG>im a big ferrari fan and especiall Schumacher but i was discraced by the decision about rubens taking second. You could se on the podium that micheal did not want it. Fair enough it makes good business sense but you could clearly see both men were upset/angry/annoyed. But it goes to show they are both team players, or else they wouldnt have gone along with it.</STRONG>

    They are employed by Ferrari, they get no say and rightly so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am a die-hard F1 fan and have learned to expect the unexpected, but when this happened I just stared at the screen in disbelief. I was disgusted! My first reaction was that it had to be a big mistake, an error on barrichello's part perhaps?

    My admiration for Rubens has increased a lot - the way he refused to complain, when lesser men would have thrown their toys out of the pram. However, this completely tarnishes the reputation of Ferrari and Schumacher.

    Michael Schumacher is the best driver of the current era - that cannot be disputed. He has won more GPs than any other in history - this should be a record to be proud of! But if some of those victories were won in this manner, then the record is meaningless.

    20 years ago this month, one of the greatest racers and sportsmen, Gilles Villeneuve, was killed while racing a Ferrari. He would be spinning in his grave if he knew what happened at Austria this sad weekend.

    PS. Thank god Sato's OK!
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