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Attack on Iran near?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, but the Saudi's are our sort of tyrants so its ok.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    So the humans who are tortured today by China can take comfort in the thought that its just a birth pain of a better country?

    And given you seem to harp on about it I'll ask again, what use would I have been to the man being thrown to the ground if I was also beaten up?
    Yes they can ...and fight to speed it up and stop the abuses from within.
    The protests following the torch are almost gauranteed to bring down harsher treatment of dissidens in China itself ...and Tibet.
    Any protests from outsiders should have been the olympic comittee and the athletes.
    I have a sneeking admiration for you actualy getting out of the proverbial protesters armchair but ...to protest about human rightds abuses and then stand idly by while it actualy happens in front of you shows a lack of actual belief and comitment.
    What should you have done ...not gone there in the first place maybe.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    The fact is Iran is not worse than Saudi in most respects, and in some, actually better.

    I agree that domestically they are probably better (not much). The key difference is that Saudi Arabia to my knowledge hasn't been making military threats to other countries in the region, nor is it actively seeking nuclear weapons in the way that Iran is claimed to be doing. Saudi Arabia also at least does seem to be making some progress. Giving men the right to vote was only recent. Giving women the right to drive was a Saudi government initiative that had to be repealed because public outrage. Not enough progress, obviously, but the right direction. But Iran seems to be going in the opposite direction (see censorship at the recent Iranian film festival for an example of ever stricter sharia law).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    : Nothing says Human Rights Abuses like a government who thinks that, far from committing atrocities, they're doing God's work. .
    We're talking GWB and his neocons here?
    The biggest abusers of human rights at this point in history are the necons in Washington. I don't see Iran or China invading soveriegn nations and killing and maiming millions of innocent people. The kidnapping imprisonment and torture of thousands ...

    Indiscriminate American violence has reduced Iraq to rubble. The civilian infrastructure is essentially destroyed–electricity, water and sewer systems, medical care and schools. Depleted uranium is everywhere poisoning everyone, including US troops. There is no economy, and half or more of Iraqis are unemployed. Literally no Iraqi family has escaped an injury or a death as a consequence of the US invasion. Millions of Iraqis have become displaced persons. A developed country with a professional middle class has been destroyed because of lies told by the President and Vice President of the US. The Bush Regime’s lies are echoed by a neoconservative media, and have gone unchallenged by the opposition party and an indifferent American public.

    In Afghanistan, death and destruction rains on even the smallest village from the air. America’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are wars against the civilian populations.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes they can ...and fight to speed it up and stop the abuses from within.
    The protests following the torch are almost gauranteed to bring down harsher treatment of dissidens in China itself ...and Tibet.
    Any protests from outsiders should have been the olympic comittee and the athletes.
    I have a sneeking admiration for you actualy getting out of the proverbial protesters armchair but ...to protest about human rightds abuses and then stand idly by while it actualy happens in front of you shows a lack of actual belief and comitment.
    What should you have done ...not gone there in the first place maybe.

    I'm sure the people in prison for their political views will take a lot of comfort from your view Rolly.

    Perhaps, just perhaps people who are suppressed might want others to raise the profile of their plight.

    And as I said getting myself dragged to the ground next to the bloke wouldnt have helped anyone. But then what do I know, I've got no real committment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree that domestically they are probably better (not much). The key difference is that Saudi Arabia to my knowledge hasn't been making military threats to other countries in the region, nor is it actively seeking nuclear weapons in the way that Iran is claimed to be doing. Saudi Arabia also at least does seem to be making some progress. Giving men the right to vote was only recent. Giving women the right to drive was a Saudi government initiative that had to be repealed because public outrage. Not enough progress, obviously, but the right direction. But Iran seems to be going in the opposite direction (see censorship at the recent Iranian film festival for an example of ever stricter sharia law).
    The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have repeatedly reported that they have found no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program. Despite all the disinformation from US Gen. Petraeus and other Bush Regime military lackeys. Sounds just like Iraq all over again. Ignore the inspectors ....the people on the ground ..just listen to Washington.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indiscriminate American violence has reduced Iraq to rubble. The civilian infrastructure is essentially destroyed–electricity, water and sewer systems, medical care and schools. Depleted uranium is everywhere poisoning everyone, including US troops. There is no economy, and half or more of Iraqis are unemployed. Literally no Iraqi family has escaped an injury or a death as a consequence of the US invasion. Millions of Iraqis have become displaced persons. A developed country with a professional middle class has been destroyed because of lies told by the President and Vice President of the US. The Bush Regime’s lies are echoed by a neoconservative media, and have gone unchallenged by the opposition party and an indifferent American public.

    BUT there is a theme park on the way ! ! ! !


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3802051.ece
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    I'm sure the people in prison for their political views will take a lot of comfort from your view Rolly.

    I'm even more sure that they will take a lot of comfort from the very real changes that are taking place on the ground in their country. From where China is now ...it would be very difficult to go backwards. They are moving forward at a very fast pace ...they need educated people ...educated people with spending power ...need freedom.
    The protests will have damaged the dissidents cause by bringing the boot down firmly on their heads in advance of the olympics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have repeatedly reported that they have found no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program. Despite all the disinformation from US Gen. Petraeus and other Bush Regime military lackeys. Sounds just like Iraq all over again. Ignore the inspectors ....the people on the ground ..just listen to Washington.

    Maybe I'm just not one to give someone who says that he wants to wipe out the "Israeli zionist regime" the benefit of the doubt on such issues. Nevertheless, whether the nuclear thing is true or not, their government is still a threat to the region in general in a way that Saudi Arabia isn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yay ...and remember ...one little boy who lost both arms ...was actualy brought over to the west to have false ones put on ...or was it legs ...theres just so many of them ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hang on a sec, i talked about people believing they have divine permission from God to back their behaviour, and your rebuttal is "look at George Dubya and the U.S?" :confused:
    Yeah ...what is you confused about?
    Haaa ...GOT YOU JUST BEFORE YOU REALISED WHAT YOU POSTED ...effing caps
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    their government is still a threat to the region in general in a way that Saudi Arabia isn't.
    The biggest threat to the region is America!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This topic is like 'Great White Sharks of Cornwall'; it comes up every year and yet no-one sees a thing...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    I think its much more likely Israel will go it alone, they did against Iraq years ago now. It would probably help the government there, tough action would prop up the opinion polls.

    With US intelligence so not quiet alone.

    But I agree this is the most likely scenario, but not, I expect, until Iran is a lot nearer with a bomb. Iran is also persian and not popular with it's Arab neighbours, so there would probably be even less comeback than with Iraq.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    The US clearly does not have the resources for a full ground war, Iraq doesn't have the will to hold off an assualt and Iran would hardly lack people willing to fight..

    If they invade Iraq the US has the resources already there. The US (with some UK help) would cripple them as soon as they set foot within the borders. They might have lots of people, but that isn't much good when they're wandering along with all their tanks, air support and artillery already smouldering funeral pyres. Iran knows that as well as anyone else...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    To be frank if they launch a massive strike against the military infrastructure in Iran I can see them simply invading Iraqi's oil fields in retailiation.

    The US clearly does not have the resources for a full ground war, Iraq doesn't have the will to hold off an assualt and Iran would hardly lack people willing to fight.
    .




    There's a reason why we spend £69billion a year on our military and the USA spends close to £600 billion, and it isn't so we can gold plate our tanks and kit them out with massage chairs. Iran might have more tanks than us, but in flat desert country they're sitting ducks.
    The Challenger 2 and M1A2 Abrahms are the most advanced weapons platforms on Earth, nothing the Iranians posess can penetrate their armour, and if they come within 5 miles they're an easy target.

    This is assuming they get close, British artillery is second to none, and the UK and USA have demonstrated and proven ability with gaining air supremacy against a country that was, technically stronger and more able to fend us off. Iran with it's 300 ageing and rapidly obsolescent aircraft aren't really a match for 3000 state of the art fighters.....(USA and UK combined).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I'm just not convinced they'd bother rather than wouldn't win. I guess I'm really thinking political resources rather than military. I still hear those rumours that due to political cut backs the most popular present to American troops from families is already proper body armour, the level of support for injured veterans ain't exactly great either. The cost of fighting the Iraq war is already, what, around 500 billion? That's over $4,000 per household in the states.

    It'd be a fucking brave politician in the states that decided to cut all the proposed support for homeowners in the middle of the current economic situation to go with it as opposed to just do a Vietnam and get the hell out as quickly as possible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They are going in with nukes ...Arabs already told to get ready for nuclear fallout. Neutron probably so the straits can start shipping oil almost staight away.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote: »
    Yeah I'm just not convinced they'd bother rather than wouldn't win. I guess I'm really thinking political resources rather than military. I still hear those rumours that due to political cut backs the most popular present to American troops from families is already proper body armour, the level of support for injured veterans ain't exactly great either. The cost of fighting the Iraq war is already, what, around 500 billion? That's over $4,000 per household in the states.

    It'd be a fucking brave politician in the states that decided to cut all the proposed support for homeowners in the middle of the current economic situation to go with it as opposed to just do a Vietnam and get the hell out as quickly as possible.

    I don't think they'd invade, but I can see a scenario where Israel bombs the reactors (with US intel). I don't think the Iranians would cross the borders to retaliate as they'd get wrecked. There might be an increase in terrorism (though possibly not as much as supposed), but I don't see it escelating into conventional

    Personally my bet is that Iran will eventually give up on its nuclear programme in return for some very nice sweeteners and everyone will save face.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally my bet is that Iran will eventually give up on its nuclear programme in return for some very nice sweeteners and everyone will save face.
    Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. Iran is permitted by the treaty to have a nuclear energy program. So those of you who think they shouldn't be allowed to continue have suggestions of how a very modern country is going to generate electricity when the oils gone i suppose?

    The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have repeatedly reported that they have found no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program. Despite all the disinformation from US Gen. Petraeus and other Bush Regime military lackeys. Sounds just like Iraq all over again. Ignore the inspectors ....the people on the ground ..just listen to Washington.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is diabolical in this decision of the US Vice President is that the justification presented by Cheney to wage war on Iran rests on Iran's involvement in a hypothetical terrorist attack on America, which has not yet occurred:

    The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections. (Philip Giraldi, Attack on Iran: Pre-emptive Nuclear War , The American Conservative, 2 August 2005)

    Are we to understand that US, British and Israeli military planners are waiting in limbo for a Second 9/11, to extend the war beyond the borders of Lebanon, to launch a military operation directed against Syria and Iran?

    cut and paste job ...http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060810&articleId=2942
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