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New study calls into question the effectiveness of commonly used SSRI medication

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    How do you know that's not just a placebo effect. You can't, and that is why personal testomonies of 'they worked for me' don't hold much water for me. I'm quite willign to be prooven otherwise but you need to show me evidence. But you won't because you can't.

    I'm glad you're "willign" to be "prooven" otherwise, but there are enough links on this thread to argue any side of this discussion.

    I understand that a person's personal testimonies may not be enough for you, but having spent nine years on various forms of these medications, I'm quite comfortable in my own beliefs. I'm not asking you to be as well.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    Bohemian wrote: »
    I'm glad you're "willign" to be "prooven" otherwise, but there are enough links on this thread to argue any side of this discussion.

    No there arn't. Where the links to the evidence that these drugs are
    one) effective
    two) used responsibly

    You havn't supplied any evidence just merely stated that "It worked for you"
    That you have such a belief in them is just evidence that the placebo effect could well be active with you.
    Bohemian wrote: »
    I'm not asking you to be as well.

    But you are.
    When you regurgitate the myth that depression is a chemical inbalance in your brain, when you state theory as fact, you mislead others.


    That a chemical inbalance is the cause of depression is still just a theory.
    That these drugs work to correct this theory hasn't been prooved.
    They're some of the most prescribed drugs in the western world.
    It's easier to get these drugs than it is to come off them.
    There are poeple getting extremely rich producing these drugs.
    These drugs have can have serious and very dangerous side effects

    Care to deny any of the above?
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No. No, I'm not asking you to agree with me, and the fact that you keep asking me to provide "evidence" to back my cause, yet continue to state that there is no evidence in existance, leaves me in quite a helpless position, doesn't it.

    I, nor apparently anyone else, can give any scientific reasons or prove any theories regarding any of this. The only evidence I can offer is through my own experience, and you've already stated that isn't enough for you.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree, and keep to our own opinions since I gather we both feel strongly here in opposite directions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    They're some of the most prescribed drugs in the western world.
    It's easier to get these drugs than it is to come off them.

    These two parts, though, I shall agree with.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    Bohemian wrote: »
    These two parts, though, I shall agree with.

    Whatr about the rest. Care to adress them?


    Bohemian wrote: »
    No, I'm not asking you to agree with me, and the fact that you keep asking me to provide "evidence" to back my cause, yet continue to state that there is no evidence in existance, leaves me in quite a helpless position, doesn't it.

    Well yes.
    But then if you state something as fact you should to be able to draw on evidence to back it up.
    Bohemian wrote: »
    I, nor apparently anyone else, can give any scientific reasons or prove any theories regarding any of this.

    Doesn't that worry you?
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry xsazx, i was saying if they were on general sale, they would have to put something in them. otherwise people would know and they would have no psycological effect.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    sorry xsazx, i was saying if they were on general sale, they would have to put something in them. otherwise people would know and they would have no psycological effect.

    I wasn't arguing for the general of placebo. I don't really understand what you mean. What woudl they put in it?

    Trials use placebos to guage how effective drugs are. If a drug is found to be as effective as a placebo, it can be argued that the drug is completely innefective.

    SSRI's have been found in trials set by the producer themselves, to be at best only 20% more effective, often no more effective and sometimes worse at treating depression
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but if the effect was compleatly in the mind, the people would have to belive that they were takeing something that might help. and for the rest, it might actually be the drug that helps. i think...
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    but if the effect was compleatly in the mind, the people would have to belive that they were takeing something that might help. and for the rest, it might actually be the drug that helps. i think...

    I'm not sure you understand why placebos are used to as a measure against a drugs effectiveness. I'm not sure I can explain any more.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    I'm not sure you understand why placebos are used to as a measure against a drugs effectiveness. I'm not sure I can explain any more.

    Skive ...let me give you one of these ...it's looking like you need one ...:banghead:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i mean is if it is all in the head, for the placebo to work in reality, the person taking it must not know that it is fake! what is the alternative for it? if people know that the drug is fake, then it has no effect. how else do they convince them selves they are doing themselves good, if not with the real thing?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i mean is if it is all in the head, for the placebo to work in reality, the person taking it must not know that it is fake! what is the alternative for it? if people know that the drug is fake, then it has no effect. how else do they convince them selves they are doing themselves good, if not with the real thing?
    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: exactly ...you give the bleedin placebo to the person ...the person thinks they are taking a drug ...they aint they are taking a sugar pill ...
    The person taking it does not know it is fake ...The person taking it does not know it is fake The person taking it does not know it is fake The person taking it does not know it is fake
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    am i being dim here? i know the idea behind the placebo effect but on a market and behind the counter, you would have to give them the real thing because of the possibility of the drug actually have effect?

    im sorry if im pissing people off here...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :D
    am i being dim here? i know the idea behind the placebo effect but on a market and behind the counter, you would have to give them the real thing because of the possibility of the drug actually have effect?

    im sorry if im pissing people off here...
    Don't worry Morty ...i piss loads of people of in here ...regular ...with attitude!:D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    maybe im getting the wrong idea but mort-placebo drugs in drugs trials are perfromed in hospitals. Sorry if im stating the obvious here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this one of them convos you have when shit faced and it just goes on and on and round and round?:hyper: :hyper:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this one of them convos you have when shit faced and it just goes on and on and round and round?:hyper: :hyper:

    Exactly! I think this is what happens when no one can really prove anything about a subject. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good, healthy debate - Skive really got my back up with this one, but I thank him for it, it keeps stuff interesting - but I can see this one going on for 10 pages.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sikorah wrote: »
    maybe im getting the wrong idea but mort-placebo drugs in drugs trials are perfromed in hospitals. Sorry if im stating the obvious here.

    i know, but im probibly wandering from the point a little too much...

    if the effect is all in the head, and can only be gained by the pills, then you would still need to give them a pill. no? so they would still need to take the ssri?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,269 Skive's The Limit
    if the effect is all in the head, and can only be gained by the pills, then you would still need to give them a pill. no? so they would still need to take the ssri?


    That an SSRI can benifit somebody through a placebo effect is does not warrant it being given on prescription, especially given the nasty side effects they can have.
    Bohemian wrote:
    Exactly! I think this is what happens when no one can really prove anything about a subject.

    I'm havn't been trying to proove anything. If you're going to advocate the benifits of these drugs, and state depression as a chemical inbalance then I think it's quite reasonable for somebosy else to question what eveidence you have to proove it.

    It's not up to me to proove they don't work. It's up to you to proove they do in the first place. As I've said my mind is open, I'll beleive something when I see good evidence for it and as of yet I havn't.
    You however seem to have made you mind up on something you can provide evidence for.
    Bohemian wrote:
    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good, healthy debate - Skive really got my back up with this one, but I thank him for it, it keeps stuff interesting

    Wouldn't it be boring if everybody agreed? :D
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be boring if everybody agreed? :D

    Damn right, sir, damn right.

    And with regards to your other comment, I know I cannot scientifically prove anything, I'm just stating that they work for me and that's enough as far as I'm concerned. As for "stating" that depression was a chemical imbalance, maybe I was a bit too hasty; was just going with what the doctors told me many moons ago.

    Mind you, I was probably in a depressive funk at the time. They could have told me they were giving me weight-loss pills or something and I'd have been naively waiting for the day I turned anorexic.
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