Home Travel & Free Time
At The Mix, we want to make our services as helpful as we can. To do this, we’d love to ask you a few questions about you, your visit to The Mix and its impact. It should take only about 5-10 minutes to complete. Take this survey and get a chance at winning a £200 Amazon voucher​.
Come and join Under 16's Support Chat, open NOW from 6pm - 7:30pm! Over 16's welcome to support our younger members. Find us here
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

Rambo (2008)

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Initially I was so confused by this movie it was unreal. I had to comfort a friend outside the cinema after the village scene, as it was pretty horrific and she wasn't really expecting it.

When the film finished I didn't know what to think. Then I thought, this is awful and agreed with this review;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/fivelive/entertainment/kermode.shtml/ext/_auto/-/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw3KCM4_tNQ

Then I was confused again, because of this statement by the Burmese Campaign UK;

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/pm/weblog.php?id=P329

Make up your own minds I guess, but be warned; this is hard shit. Its not a fun romp with an old 80s action hero.
«13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with Kermode and you TBH, inspite of what the Burmese Campaign says there are better ways of getting that message out.

    I thought is was little more than a gore fest with little more than a passing justification.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've got no problem saying that I was on the point of tears in the village scene, because I knew it was real...and I want to feel like that...I would feel a complete cunt if something that horrific didn't reduce me to tears.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I watched this last night and found the 'village scene' you speak of unwatchable. I was nearly sick more than once, it was terribly upsetting and a scene from a horror rather than an action film. It was more like "Hostel" than "First Blood". It served its purpose but it was too much for me. In the typically hypocritical way I can watch gangsters gun each other down and victims being picked off one by one by "masked homicidal maniac 3.0" but I can't bear to see children and their parents being slaughtered side by side.

    That said, I did find the film as a whole quite thought-provoking. There seemed to be a pretty sensible message about missionary work in Karen (analogous for Burma at large) not being such a clearly-cut "good thing" as people might think. Obviously Karen State was chosen to fit nicely with the 'young, beautiful Christian missionary' plot device but there are valid points to be made. I would wager that the overwhelming majority of people who went/go to see Rambo at the cinema will come out newly aware of a situation in a part of Burma they never knew existed. I can't say then that it's a bad thing. I really hate the fact that our society needs a celebrity to open eyes and minds to these situations but... seemingly, it does. It does work, interest will be piqued and at least awareness is heightened. The exchange about not taking any weapons meaning they [the missionaries] would be unable to bring about the changes they sought to make was rather telling, I thought.

    Really harrowing stuff, described by my husband as "gloriously violent", I would second the recommendation for people to see it - and judge it - for themselves. I'd also second the caveat emptor that it's very difficult viewing and a bit like First Blood with a lot more gore (the ripping off of flesh with bare hands was my personal lowlight) and some serious grey areas ethically.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you think tha tpeople will realise that the sub plot about Burma is true though - or care?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Briggi;
    To describe Rambo as 'gloriously violent' I find, with all due respect to your husband, a little disturbing. It is this type of reaction that I am scared of.

    UPDATE: and my fears appear to be well founded, as many people on the BBC movies website are raving about the film...they are raving about it because its 'the best action film in years' and 'looks really good'...people are quite willing to look upon this as a good mindless action romp.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/commentscps/index.shtml?rambo_2008_review

    I was never conservative about violence in films, but in this particular case I feel strangely so. I'll just give you two such gems;
    Mark Doggett
    Just seen this at a preview and I can only say WOW!!!. It is the best action film for many years and and totally thrilling. Reviewers will hate it as they feel the need to be politically correct and look down on this kind of minless violence and gore. But at the end of the day their opinion does not matter, it's the people who actually pay to see films that count and this will be a huge success.

    and
    Amazing stuff! For to long action movies have been safe & unthrilling, made for kids. This really kicks bottom with the long absent return of blood 'n' guts in action cinema. Roll on Rambo 7!!

    That scares me, it really does. Blood and guts, no problem but fellow humans, please, look at the context.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That movie was awesome. The villans got what they deserved. Pansy ass merc's hiding as these villigars are being forced to run to mined rice patties and Rambo busts out with a composite bow. And murders every last fucker there with arrows. He doesn't give them a painless death from a bullet, but a huge fuckin arrow in the leg, chest, thorax, abdomen, and head.

    That and my favorite scene where a drunken Burmese soldier is about to rape the nice blond girl and does Rambo stab him? No. Shoot him? No. Slit his neck? Wrong again. He rips out the guy's throat. And not in one swift, cheesy movement. He takes time to pull the guy's head back and expose his trachea and iron-grips onto it until he knows his grip is good enough to yank it all out. I'm pretty sure that guy isn't going to rape anymore.

    At least most of this rampaging film is justified however absurd it becomes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    junker wrote: »
    That movie was awesome. The villans got what they deserved. Pansy ass merc's hiding as these villigars are being forced to run to mined rice patties and Rambo busts out with a composite bow. And murders every last fucker there with arrows. He doesn't give them a painless death from a bullet, but a huge fuckin arrow in the leg, chest, thorax, abdomen, and head.

    That and my favorite scene where a drunken Burmese soldier is about to rape the nice blond girl and does Rambo stab him? No. Shoot him? No. Slit his neck? Wrong again. He rips out the guy's throat. And not in one swift, cheesy movement. He takes time to pull the guy's head back and expose his trachea and iron-grips onto it until he knows his grip is good enough to yank it all out. I'm pretty sure that guy isn't going to rape anymore.

    At least most of this rampaging film is justified however absurd it becomes.
    I hope you're some sort of parody.

    That "the villains got what they deserved" is exactly the kind of crap Mark Kermode's spot-on review attacks. If you really find the bodycount 'justified' that's because the film is made to manipulate you into feeling that way. 'Bad things' are carried out by 'bad people', so when 'bad people' die, you feel great about it. That's irresponsible, tiresome filmmaking. That it links itself to a real situation to make a pretence of importance or seriousness when it's actually a simpleminded revenge movie makes it even worse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Junker
    That and my favorite scene where a drunken Burmese soldier is about to rape the nice blond girl and does Rambo stab him? No. Shoot him? No. Slit his neck? Wrong again. He rips out the guy's throat. And not in one swift, cheesy movement. He takes time to pull the guy's head back and expose his trachea and iron-grips onto it until he knows his grip is good enough to yank it all out. I'm pretty sure that guy isn't going to rape anymore.

    You and I feel the same way; the difference is that whereas your reaction is to say that 'justice was done' - mine is to ask is there anything we can do here to help the people from suffering these atrocities. When we talk about 'concern for the victim' my first concern is that we should always put help before punishment.

    Incidently the way you read the film is exactly the way the BBFC felt that the audience would be induced to react.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If Stallone wanted to do a serious film about the situation in Burma, then he wouldn't have used Rambo as the vehicle, and he wouldn't have acted in it himself. The Rambo franchise may have started off as an attempt at a serious film, but since the first one, it's turned into an action film similar to the Die Hard series, where people go to watch people killed in the widest and most unbelievable variety of ways possible. I haven't seen it yet, but from the sounds of it, it's a typical over-the-top action film that just happens to have its context in a real world situation. If that's the case, then I expect any moral message is simply tacked on. And if that's what it is, then you can't blame audience members for reading it that way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I hope you're some sort of parody.

    That "the villains got what they deserved" is exactly the kind of crap Mark Kermode's spot-on review attacks. If you really find the bodycount 'justified' that's because the film is made to manipulate you into feeling that way. 'Bad things' are carried out by 'bad people', so when 'bad people' die, you feel great about it. That's irresponsible, tiresome filmmaking. That it links itself to a real situation to make a pretence of importance or seriousness when it's actually a simpleminded revenge movie makes it even worse.

    Hopefully I don't need someone else's review to make my opinion. The movie is RAMBO! Not a good medium for political activism. I can't believe this movie could be taken so seriously. It's Rambo. I mean, the first film was titled First Blood. It's obviously supposed to be an action film. Just by watching it, one can find that the plot is sub-par. There's hardly any cohesion at all within the story and there is little to no character development. So therefore I can't take the film too seriously.

    Yes, the villains got what they deserved. All rapists' (among other people) throats should be forcefully removed. Sadistic people who think they're doing something good by "ethical cleansing" ought to be pierced with arrows.
    You and I feel the same way; the difference is that whereas your reaction is to say that 'justice was done' - mine is to ask is there anything we can do here to help the people from suffering these atrocities. When we talk about 'concern for the victim' my first concern is that we should always put help before punishment.

    Incidently the way you read the film is exactly the way the BBFC felt that the audience would be induced to react.

    I couldn't agree more. In the movie 'justice was done'. In real life, yes, it would be a good idea to find out a solution to help people that suffer that type of treatment. But sometimes, you have to admit, some sick bastards deserve to be stabbed in the abdomen and laterally eviscerated.

    There is a line between movies and real life. Especially Rambo. This is a good topic for discussion if we want to talk about ending the suffering of people that don't deserve it from tyrants and other bastards, but we can't take this film seriously, simply from the basis that this film doesn't look like it was to be intended as a political statement what-so-ever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but we can't take this film seriously, simply from the basis that this film doesn't look like it was to be intended as a political statement what-so-ever.

    But it blantantly was - Stallone was on Jonathan Ross the other night talking about just this issue; check it out on iPlayer. It has used catalogued real life atrocities as the basis for its set pieces, in order that we can justify the machine gun crechendo.

    I went to see Rambo precisely because I wanted a silly, escapist over-the-top romp of silly over the top violence. What I got was the exploitation of real life suffering and a dangerous blurring of the boundary between reality and fiction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    FFS it's a Rambo film, you're not suppossed to look at the underlying political context of the film or shit like that. Haven't seen it but if it's anything like the second and third installments then I just expect some good ole fun, stop getting yer knickers in a twist peeps. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    FFS it's a Rambo film, you're not suppossed to look at the underlying political context of the film or shit like that. Haven't seen it but if it's anything like the second and third installments then I just expect some good ole fun, stop getting yer knickers in a twist peeps. :thumb:

    :yes:

    It's a mooooooooovie! :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What I got was a dangerous blurring of the boundary between reality and fiction.

    I think that's where we differ. I watched this with my girlfriend at the weekend and she was close to tears throughout, but it's just a movie. Yes, what is and has been happening in Burma is horrific, but the movie was not. It wasn't shot in Burma, the soldiers weren't Burmese, the villagers were actors, and the killing wasn't real. It's no more shocking than most World War films, no more shocking than holocaust scenes and no more shocking than news reports/documentaries.

    tl;dr - I didn't find it hard at all to seperate reality and fiction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its not about not being able to separate it, its about being able to suspend the idea that these are actually, to the minutest detail things that are currently happening to real people. I cannot enjoy that shit.

    That is not 'good ole fun'. Saving Private Ryan wasn't 'good old fun' either - it was an affecting piece of film making.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    I watched Saing privite ryan again on Saturday too, it's so entertaining because we know it's a likeness to events that have taken place, that my great grandparents endured.

    Saving Private Ryan doesn't glorify violence. It's explicit because it want's to show the reality of what those in WW2 endured. Same with Shindlers List.

    If you going to base films on real life sitautions where thousands have suffered you should really show a bit of reponsibility and not glorify the violence. Otherwise it just because a big old expensive snuff film or war porn like Black Hawk Down was.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its not about not being able to separate it, its about being able to suspend the idea that these are actually, to the minutest detail things that are currently happening to real people. I cannot enjoy that shit.

    So I take it you didn't really enjoy Rambo 3 either, I mean that was happening to real people at the time too?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So I take it you didn't really enjoy Rambo 3 either, I mean that was happening to real people at the time too?

    Well the same criticism could be levelled at that as well (although I've only read a synopsis) but as far as i am aware they don't go to such lengths with the gratuity, detail and protraction of suffering. Just because another film has or has not done something has nothing to do with my feelings about the new Rambo; its the first piece of cinema I've been genuinely offended by.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    ........

    responsibility?

    Well I think it is a little irresponisble to make light entertainment out of real situations where thousands have suffered and continue to suffer.

    I often enjoy war and violent films, but I find the best ones are thought provonking and moving, they're not the ones that rely on the viewer to take pleasure from watching death and seeing the violence. Otherwise it's just snuff.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You watch violent films? How irresponsible of you!

    Its not the point, its the context...as other posters have stated above.
    These forums can be a bit of boring palce to be soemtimes, the same of shit over and over with people constantly making somehting out of nothing.

    You're free to stop typing at any time mate.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    "light" i don't know but entertainment yes and always will be. In the past entertainment was the execution people in the middle of a town, it was a great event apparently, all the children gathered as well. It was horrible to watch they say, but entertaining in some manner.

    Woudl tht be something you'd like to watch? I wouldn't.

    You watch violent films? How irresponsible of you!

    Don't be a tit. Again you quite clear fail to grasp the point I was making. Do you have a problem reading?
    Whether it's apparently irresponsible or not people enjoy watching moving films which show people being butchered. Soemtimes we like to watch a gorefest too like dawn of the dead. The reason we all watch films and even real life death videos is curiosity and because it "moves us".

    What a load of bollocks.
    Read my post again. I never said it was irresponsible to watch violent films. I said I thoughth it was irresponsible to make light entertainment out of real situations where thousands have suffered. You think a Rambo film about the holocaust with real life footage of the gassing of Jews would be acceptable?

    Can you not see the difference between Saving Private Ryan and Rambo?
    These forums can be a bit of boring palce to be soemtimes, the same of shit over and over with people constantly making somehting out of nothing.

    Still bitter about your false rape assertion? :)
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    No but i guess i'm irresponsible for watching violent films because they are entertaining?

    Nobody has said that. I certainly havn't. Quote me where I did.

    Take Shindlers List for instance. It takes a horrific situation and makes it entertaining because it's though provoking and moving. It uses violence but never in a way that it leaves the viewer enjoying it. Your always left with the feeling that these things happened and it was tragic. Violence in this way is a necessity to convey how horrifying the situation was.

    Canb you not see the difference?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The only time i'd find it dis tasteful was if they did it in a jackass manner with clips of death just to entertain people.

    Well he sneaks up behind a man like Jaws coming out of the water, and everyone in the cinema laughed. I'd say they did, in places, do exactly that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it was, in the sense that THAT is what I payed to see - stupid bits of throwaway violence that are stylised in such a way that they don't relate to real people. But by that stage the wider context meant I felt bad about laughing. I left that film utterly confused in a way that I have never left any film before hand.

    The point that Skive is making is that the closer you get to reality and real situations, the more care and attention you have to pay to the overall context and handling of the piece.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    Difference to what? someone cutting another person arm off with a chainsaw or something? Yes, but both are entertaining. Dawn fo the dead is one of my best movies, love the way he drops his shotgun to let ti rest on his lap then blow the face right off the guy, eyeballs and all.

    Again you obviously lack the ability to grasp the fact that the difference is in the context of the film.

    This latest Rambo uses real footage of attrocities in a real situation and then expects the viewer to enjoy the other fictional scenes of violence and death.

    Dawn of Dead is never mixes reality and fiction like this.

    If you can't see the difference then there's no point in going on with this discussion. Again you seem to have serious trouble thinking that little bit deeper.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    The producers know this when they make it, to grab more peoples attention, make them leave with things still churning round and overall make it a lot more entertaining.

    :banghead:

    I wouldn't mind discussing this with somebody who disagrees, just as long as they get the fucking point being made. Frustrating as fuck.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The producers know this when they make it, to grab more peoples attention, make them leave with things still churning round and overall make it a lot more entertaining.

    NO. I am the judge of what entertains me, not the producers. I was not entertained I was confused and offended.


    SKIVE
    This latest Rambo uses real footage of attrocities in a real situation and then expects the viewer to enjoy the other fictional scenes of violence and death.


    Oh and just to confirm...the footage isn't actual atrocities - they are reenactements of confirmed events, similar to crimewatch
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't see anybody enjoying the violence, unless they're a bit abnormal to start with. It was uncomfortable.

    I thought it effectively showed that other grosser side to human beings, the one Stevenson writes about in Jekyll and Hyde, in the form of the Burmese soldiers. The whole point of the state is to try to tame that side of man, and to nurture his better gentler side.

    But then, here's the kicker, in civilised countries we create these people we call soldiers, who are trained to tap into that grosser side and are licensed to behave in a way that would ordinarily be derided and punished, but only as long as its for a good cause like 'freedom' or 'self-defence', and as long as it's controlled. The Rambo films have always been about the cleavage between the civilised mentality of the people the State is trying to create (like the Christian missionaries in the film), and the slightly different kind of people who are needed to uphold the State and the virtues it is trying to develop and nourish.

    I think the realistic violence was needed to make you feel that cleavage.The second and third films didn't explore that theme very well because they made the violence farcical. In this one you were suppose to find it uncomfortable, and then to realise that there are people we train not to feel uncomfortable with it, and we need them.

    It reminded me of General Patton's speech in the film 'Patton':

    "Now, some of you boys, I know, are wondering whether or not you'll chicken-out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you will all do your duty. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood. Shoot them in the belly. When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do."
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,214 Skive's The Limit
    the people who watch executions say that, but they can't help but watch.

    Executions are not good entertainment, you've admitted yourself that you wouldn't watch an execution. Hows this your defense?
    I'm confused and offended when i watched a certain scouser decapitated by Islamic terrorists. I wasn't entertained, i was gripped, it was horrible.

    As you say you wern't entertained and there's nobody making money off production of these videos.
    Movies makers know these kind of things when they make the movie. Sylvester Stallone KNEW it would be gripping and horrific when he made the film,

    Exactly, it's using a real life situation in which thousands have suffered to make a film designed to let viewers revel in the death scenes. And they're making money out of it. It coudl have carried a thoughful message about the real horrors going on in Burma but it didn't.

    I wouldn't have a problem with a Rambo film set in Burma aroudn the situation there as long as it had a bit of depth and maybe carried a message to a greater audience raising awarness about the real situation there. Instead what seems to have happened is that it's used a real life horrific situation to make a film with stylised death porn, designed to make the viewer enjoy the death scenes.

    Do you not think that's a bit wrong?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
Sign In or Register to comment.