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Why People are aruging against Immigration when they are giving also
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
[FONT=courier new,monospace]The day Tony left the office and Brown took charge, labor party is coming under extreme criticism on their policies, among which immigration is the most heated topic. But i was just wondering why their is so much concerns UK population have about this. In one report it looks that they are giving more than they took, e.g;[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4487707.stm[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]And then another report comes in which it looks like whole problem is due to people who are immigrating, e.g;[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7215624.stm[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]I think everybody is confused here what is right and what is wrong, everyone is trying to show the picture which he/she thinks is right including BBC. I think they should show that if they are getting these facilities then how much they pay for getting those (in same report) otherwise it makes a wrong public opinion about a certain fact.
Now if different department of govt are in pressure due to increase in population it means that UK Govt did not prepare for this, so instead of blaming Immigrants, people of UK should have to blame Govt, who did not make new hospitals and schools to cope with possible problems. I think Immigrants and UK born population both are not getting good service for what they are paying for.
At the end, a very humble request, don't hate or blame immigrants, hate the Govt, because when people said its all because of Immigration, it looks not fair because they are paying their tax but Govt is not using it properly.
Thanks everyone for reading.
[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4487707.stm[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]And then another report comes in which it looks like whole problem is due to people who are immigrating, e.g;[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7215624.stm[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new,monospace]I think everybody is confused here what is right and what is wrong, everyone is trying to show the picture which he/she thinks is right including BBC. I think they should show that if they are getting these facilities then how much they pay for getting those (in same report) otherwise it makes a wrong public opinion about a certain fact.
Now if different department of govt are in pressure due to increase in population it means that UK Govt did not prepare for this, so instead of blaming Immigrants, people of UK should have to blame Govt, who did not make new hospitals and schools to cope with possible problems. I think Immigrants and UK born population both are not getting good service for what they are paying for.
At the end, a very humble request, don't hate or blame immigrants, hate the Govt, because when people said its all because of Immigration, it looks not fair because they are paying their tax but Govt is not using it properly.
Thanks everyone for reading.
[/FONT]
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Comments
They also forget to mention this little talked about fact about Enoch Powell:
Later, he oversaw the employment of a large number of Commonwealth immigrants by the understaffed National Health Service.[22] Prior to this, many non-white immigrants who held full rights of citizenship in Britain were obliged to take the jobs that no one else wanted (eg. street cleaning, night-shift assembly production lines), often paid considerably less than their white counterparts. (full refs in wiki)
Its strange to think that as my mum was one of them, Powell is partially responsible for me being British
Immigration is largely a non-issue, we are rich, we have enough space and the numbers arent really that high. I fail to see why we complain so much.
Rightly said, my cousin is in UK from last 3 years and now he make 380 pounds per day and also paying his tax and getting facilities in return but he don't try to mix with English People, and that thing i also have to admit is bad in immigrants.
But then most Brits dont mix that well either, the idea that only immigrants 'keep to themselves' is total rubbish, especially in big cities were there isnt any community spirit.
Because it gives the government something to blame other than their own incompetence in failing to deliver the services they promised. It's not the immigrant's fault that governments took so long to deliver any extra funds to deal with the sudden population increases they knew were going to happen.
And to be fair when Migrant Watch put out figures about migration it wasn't only the Government who pooh-poohed them...
All migrants do this, especially Brits abroad. I was watching one of those Ibiza programmes on Bravo (while searching for an arts documentary
An ever-present theme is the irate couple who, fed up with Britain ''going to the dogs'' with all that multiculturalism and immigrants not adapting to the culture of the country, write to the paper to declare they've had enough and will be packing their bags and moving to Spain.
Needless to say the immense majority of such people end up in one of the hundreds of British ghettoes that blight the Spanish coastline, each one feauturing British pubs and British-branded supermarkets only, and where nobody speaks the local language.
As a certain Mail columnist would put it, you couldn't make it up.
But, lets not forget that we do a pretty good job of being anti-social ourselves, most of our town centres on Friday and Saturday nights are horrid not because of immigrants but because of Brits drinking too much.
The problem with the first point is if immigrants adopt the second point
BUT unless I'm mistaken, the terrorists who blew up the underground were second/third generations to have lived here, not immigrants. Also the IRA... Weren't some of them from Belfast?
As for integrating properly... How do you define when somebody has integrated to the required standard?
I do... And they don't resent people "like me" (though what do you mean people like you?).
At least not my friends... However, I cannot speak for them, but only as a white British person and interacting with them. I think the only people who are able to judge whether or not they like somebody... Is themselves.
You can easily believe that an act is amoral, whilst still loving the person. I don't see how you can make a generalisation.
Religious texts are open to interpretation, many religions teach people not to judge. If you are in any way referring to terrorism... Well, that is far more complex than just disliking British culture.
Some quite possibly do... But it isn't black and white...
Is there a point to saying this?
Again... What is your point?
Should the whole world modify their beliefs to fit our standards? Are 'we' right and not 'them'?
And tolerance goes both ways.
But how long have these immigrants been around?
The same happened where I'm from where people came not only as asylum seekers (they were Iraqi Kurds), but also to work. My town was previously working class and white and people accused the 'foreigners' of not trying to integrate (amongst other things).
The fact is though, that 'integration' (by which I mean mixing and practicing our way of life) cannot happen properly if British people are not accepting too. Tbh... I would be wary of integrating in some parts of the UK because of the BNP presence. Also... To be fair, the UK can be a culture shock as well.
Still not really sure as to what people mean by integration though.
Having said that, they should learn English and compromise on some things- for instance if they have to take their veil off for some security checks, or to have a passport or driving licence photograph taken, then so be it.
And I would certainly wouldn't allow mosques to play calls to prayer through loudspeakers. I've been in Middle Eastern countries and if you happen to be reasonably near to a mosque (not difficult over there) there is nothing more infuriating than getting woken up at 4.30 am, and once or twice more before you get out of bed, by prayers broadcast through loudspeakers. It's bad enough with church bells.
Then try to be less ambiguous and more intelligent with what you write... Maybe people won't read in to it too much.
To be honest... You just sound like you're making huge generalisations here.
Ok...
In Western culture our 'normal' working hours are Mon-Fri, 9-5 (give or take). A pious Muslim however would want the friday off (or half of it) to pray his friday prayer.
A pious Muslim requires more breaks than other employees especially during the winter months so that he can perform his prayers. He will have to perform up to 3 prayers during office hours (this includes the ablution too).
If tomorrow we discovered a method of animal slaughter which is more humane than what is currently practised (which is quite likely after watching Michael Portillos 'execution' programme), then common sense would tell us that all other methods of animal slaughter (eg halal/kosher) should be BANNED. But as we all know, the mere suggestion of banning halal/kosher slaughter would cause a huge uproar and cries of 'demonisation' and 'victimisation'.
A Muslim man has the right to marry up to 4 wives. In many countries with a larger Muslim minority, there is a separate law for Muslims which allows them to do this (eg, India). Should we allow this to happen here too? It is their religious right afterall.
A Muslim man has the right to beat his wife if he fears disloyalty as per Quran 4:34. In our culture, this is domestic abuse and the man would be prosecuted for this.
In Germany a Muslim womans request for a speedy divorce on the grounds that her husband beat her was turned down because the judge cited that Quranic verse. SOURCE.
This happend in GERMANY, ie on our EU doorstep. In the Muslim world of course, it's more common.
^ That's all just off the top of my head. I might edit this post and add some more things.
I know that the Western culture isn't compatible with a lot of Islamic beliefs. But it is nice to hear an intelligent contribution as to why it is so.
There are problems with multiculturalism, I agree.
But that is not to do entirely with integration, it is to do with the legal system too. Do you know a great deal about domestic violence and divorce laws in Germany?
I actually worry about the impact of multiculturalism on women's rights in the UK (am doing a dissertation on it), as well as on gay rights, but people should also understand that it is the courts too which can discriminate against women, or undermine how serious rape and domestic violence are.
The problem doesn't really come from immigrants. No, the real problem comes from aggressive atheist retards, who fail to see they're actually fanning the flames of religious extremism. By that, I'm talking about morons such as the National Secular Society. (yes, the very same organisation that I recently massacred for nicking articles from the Grauniad newspaper) They're the ones who are really causing the problem.
One thing which i think British people are right about that if Govt allow immigration then they should also have to upgrade its system so that it can handle problems which would occur as the result of this.
And then this thread lose its whole purpose and it went all to the discussion of religions, how much religion is cause of problem that people are not able to mix with each other bla bla bla.
I think its very easy to say to some one that leave your religion or in other words leave the core things which your religion say and mix with this new culture. When i was leaving religion it was very painful period (even though my decision was intentionally) and if you say someone to throw its religion on one side it will not be possible for her/her. So its not what we should discuss here because it has many dimensions why people don't mix with new culture or they find it difficult to mix. I will also be immigrant next year:) and i also feel very strongly that it will not be easy for me to mix with new culture even though i have no religious attachment but culture is always stronger that religion and i will come with my culture so it will not be easy.
In the Old Testament, it's a sin to plant mixed crops, to eat shellfish, apparently also to wear mixed fibres (or so I remember from back in the day), but religious texts do change, in synch with changes in power structures and in the interests of the elites.
The Bible has been 'updated' several times and interpreted in so many ways and hence there are several denominations, including (unless I'm mistaken) Gnostic Christians, who follow the Nag Hammadi texts which were removed at the Council of Nicea.
People are causing the problems imo... They are just using religion, or lack thereof as a shitty excuse to harm others, same with politics.
If we weren't persecuting each other for religion, nationality, skin colour, sexual orientation or gender identities we'd be killing each other over eye colour, or wavy hair. We'll always find an excuse.
People can look outside the box if they want... A view too narrow of people's relationships with religion often assumes that there is a uniform way of thinking... When religion can be more holistic to the individual, at least on a personal level.
Don't know if atheism aggravates religious extremism, but I think of lot of atheists could do well by giving their superiority complex a check... And that's rich coming from a grumpy feminazi culture-snob like me.LOL :razz:
What background are you from?
I think a lot of people get angry about immigration because they are scared of losing what they already know and the security they always had in the marketplace. There's more competition and as much as I hate to stereotype, with people who will do the shitty jobs for lower wages than British people will. Unfortunately, the papers blame immigrants, when a lot of the time it is changes in the economy which is losing people jobs.
People are scared of what's different and it probably goes every way possible. It must be difficult for people to conform to new cultures and I really really feel for refugees and asylum seekers who come here to escape persecution or war and then are given shit by British people and 'our' media. Some people hardly even know anything about Britain's history, its politics, it's culture (though what is British culture?) and then expect other people to act like them... Even more annoying... People who get pissed off at a corner shop, a Polish food store or a take away as if they're killing our culture... Then go off and eat at Macdonalds.:mad:
On the subject itself, immigrants aren't a problem. It's just the numbers that could potentially be a problem. It doesn't help one bit that every time the Government releases numbers about this subject, there are accusations flying around within literally a few minutes that ministers have been cooking the books. Ministers could help themselves by actually being honest about it, and leaving the job of finding the numbers to an independent body.